I think that this books ending was way more satisfying than 1984. Even though they have many similarities I found this book much more interesting and entertaining. Probably because it was written in much more of a modern setting.
I found the ending of this book to be much more satisfying than 1984. There are many similarities but because of modern entertainment and action movies the ending was much more exciting and amusing compared the less enthusiatic ending of 1984.
I think the end of the book was way better than 1984. I actually wanted Marcus to succeed but Winston just annoyed me. I also think the modern setting was a lot easier and more entertaining to read.
I agree. The ending in "Little Brother" was a lot more satisfying. It actually left the reader feeling like the book has been completed, unlike "1984" which left the reader feeling bored and very uninformed. I think that "Little Brother" is more interesting because of the face that it relates more to our lives now. Overall the ending was great in my opinion.
It was much more satisfying. He actually defeated the DHS instead of them brainwashing him successfully. This is much better. It's not only a happy ending, it shows freedom's victory over tyranny.
Although I like that Marcus won, I feel that the ending of 1984 made a greater impact. To me, the success of Winston's brainwashing...it's terrifying. It shows that we succumb to society and peer pressure, etc, despite knowing about it and the dangers of conforming. I know that I "conform" (ugh how many times have I used that word this year?) and yet I know that it's "wrong" (is it wrong? I don't know) to do...I may not have liked 194 as much, but it made me think more rather than Little Brother which was just a "rooting for freedom" book. for me at least
@Brooke I really liked the ending of the book. It seemed like everything that Marcus did made a difference in the world. I really wanted all of Marcus' efforts to pay off. I was so happy(:
@class- What did you think about the vampire gathering they had at the civic center? What was the actual purpose Marcus was aiming for? Was it reasonable?
It didn't seem like it was the actual purpose that Marcus was aiming for since after he seemed almost freaked out about the turn out and losing Ange among the crowd. He said that he just wanted a distraction but the vampire scene was more than just a distraction. It was a brilliant idea for a distraction against what he was trying to do but he didn't think it through very well since it seemed to actually scare all of the business men and make them all panic.
It was brilliant. He wanted a simple fun game to make an effect on people. It didn't do what he wanted and resulted in many arrests, but it worked anyway. He was aiming to make another impression on the DHS and the population of San Francisco. It was completely reasonable.
I agree that the gathering was brilliant. He had found a way to get everyone together and effect the DHS without being completely violent. Although, it did cause many arrests. Either way it was a great idea.
It broke my heart when Masha wouldn't let Marcus go back for Ange. How did you guys feel about that? Do you think that was a smart decision on her part? Do you think Marcus would have stayed with Masha if he would have had Ange with him?
That was really sad but I think that she did it because she wanted to make sure that Marcus was safe. I'm sure Masha knew what the DHS wanted to do to Marcus when they caught him. I'm not really sure if Marcus would have stayed if Ange was there. I think it would really depend on how Ange was reacting and what she thought of Masha. Though I doubt that it would have been such a crazy way to take everything.
It made me mad when Masha wouldn't let Marcus go back for Ange, however in the long run I think that it was a smart decision. And I really think that without Masha telling Marcus to leave Ange then he would have went back for her.
I thought it was very upsetting, but it was for a good reason. If Marcus would have gone back, the DHS most likely would have hurt him or used his weaknesses against him. Overall Masha made a smart decision.
I definitely think that Marcus would have stayed back for Ange because he has come to like her very much and she is someone that he feels safe around and can tell her anything and doesn't have to worry about it getting out to the public. Masha forced him to do something against his will and he was devastated about it.
I agree. In 1984, Winston fought the government, but in the end it didn't really matter. I feel like in Little Brother Marcus really achieved something, and his efforst weren't shot down and didn't go to waste.
I loathed the ending of 1984. I fell bad for Winston because all of his effort was lost. Marcus had the intelligence and the knowledge of what freedom was like. He was able to accomplish more from his knowledge then Winston.
@Elly I agree, I really wanted Marcus and Ange to get away. I wanted them to be together, just because of how much Ange meant to Marcus. I actually started to like her.
@ Brooke--- The ending of the book was much more satisfying that that of 1984. In 1984, Winston failed in his efforts to bring justice to his society. In Little Brother, Marcus succeeded. I was happy to see that all of his work finally made a difference.
He just doesn't want to be unfairly restricted. Marcus is willing to fight for his freedom. The significance is that the American people won't let themselves live under a society like Little Brother's.
Marcus doesn't wish to be restricted any longer, so he believes that he must become like Ma1k3y to be free. The significance is that the American government is never supposed to be controlling like that, so he refuses to live under that type of government.
@Blake I think the vampire gathering served its purpose. It got him away from the crowd with Masha. However, I think that it wasn't a good idea just because it dragged so many other people into it. I felt bad that innocent people were being used and ended up getting gassed when they just wanted to have fun.
@ Blake I think that the vampire gathering was intended to be a showing of how many people are with Marcus and how powerful the Xnet is. They were also trying to make the DHS look bad by faking the use of pepper spray when the orders to disassemble came.
@Class So as to last week's fishbowl- we were debating whether or not their was a relationship between Van and Marcus. I don't think that Marcus ever liked Van, but I do think it is obvious that Van did like Marcus a little.
well it was eventually stated she did like him in the last few chapters, but before that, yes you're right there was something about how Van really liked Marcus, but Marcus didn't feel that way.
@ Blake I thought it was a great plan. At first I was thinking that it was a bad idea and that nobody would want to participate. I guess I had a hard time imagining high school kids dressing up as vampires and then going out in public. Then I thought about it some more, and if someone I looked up to, Taylor Swift for example, said to wear a vampire outfit to her concert, I would.
@Blake I think the Vamp Mob was a good idea to start but it eventually grew into something that Marcus or anyone couldn’t handle. It started off reasonable but, grew way out of proportion when they pretended to be gassed. When they pretended to be gassed they were provoking a stampede of people.
@Katie I think that Marcus and Ange are more likable because I think we can relate more to them especially because they are in the same generation that we are in. I also tend to think that they are a little more smart than Winston and Julia were.
@ Elly--- It wasn't very smart of Masha to keep Marcus from going back for Ange. She should have understood how much Marcus cared about Ange. If Masha had let Marcus go back to get Ange, it is much more likely that he would have stayed since he was with her.
Would Marcus have still gone along? He made up his mind to stop running and to fight, although if he knew fighting involved being waterboarded, he might have run away. But because Marcus stood up for what he believed in, he made a difference, and for the better I might add. And through Little Brother Doctorow is teaching us to stand for what we believe in, where as Orwell taught that no matter what you do, you can't win. And while I'm inclined to agree with Doctorow's optimistic views, Orwells message seems, sadly, more realistic.
@Alexis It shows that M1k3y was Marcus's way of starting a rebellion beyond what he himself could have done in person. He was able to gather tons more people through their games.
@Class Being the girl that I am, I was somewhat upset that Van and Marcus never got to be together. Do you think Marcus should have chosen her or Ange?
Considering how involved Marcus is with Ange, I would hate to see him dump her to see what would happen with Van. Even though I don't completely love Ange--I think she deserves Marcus.
I think Marcus should of chosen Van, but they have known each other for so long, it's awkward for them, nice to us. I think us as readers would of liked to have seen that, but Marcus and Van may haven't seen them together and couples.
Well, Marcus doesn't seem to like Van like he does Ange. I think he should have chosen her like he did because he has many more feelings for her than Van.
I agree with Savannah, I think that Marcus should have chosen Van. Although, they have been friends for a long time and many times people like that are stuck in the "friend zone." I don't believe that Marcus thought of Van as more of a friend, so they wouldn't really end up as a couple in the book.
@Klarissa I think that Ange and Marcus are a lot smarter than Winston and Julia. Ange and Marcus actually wanted to make a difference. Winston and Julia were afraid to do anything.
@Class On page 352 it stated, "That's when they opened Darryl's cell. He had shredded his paper hospital gown. He was curled up, naked, in the back of the cell, shielding himself from the camera and our stares." and "He trembled and squeezed his eyes shut. 'I'm sorry,' he whispered, and turned his face away." What do you think is the significance of these two quotes? What could the DHS had done to Darryl to break him so badly?
I feel that what they did to Darryl is awful. They must have tortured him till the breaking point, and left him feeling as though he had betrayed his closest friends. That would make any person feel bad about themselves.
@Katie Well, like we talked about in last week's fishbowl, I think that Marcus never liked Van because he was always protecting the fact that Darryl liked Van.
@Micheal I definitely think Van had feelings for Marcus bacuase of the way she treated him diferently from her other friends. She would kiss him and she got the most emotional when he decided to try to start a rebelion and she thought he would get in trouble so she wanted him to stop and stay safe.
@Gabe I agree but is was a one way relationship. Marcus didn’t have feelings for Van because he knew that Darryl liked Van and he couldn’t go behind his friends back. It is part of the bro code; you don’t go behind your bro’s back.
I don't think so. They are the same person, but it's a lot like how we all act today. We are so much stronger through our computers, with something to hide behind. He was a brave coward to begin with but in the end I believe that he really showed his M1k3y personality in person when he had to.
@ Class--- What did you think about Nate and Liam? I thought that it was really interesting to see how much these kids truly adored Marcus. They treated him like he was a celebrity. It showed that M1k3y always was really looked up to by the X-netters.
I was super excited to see that there were people admiring Marcus. It was great to see that everything Marcus did was for a good cause. I was overflowing with happiness(:
It was great to see that people had looked up to Marcus. He isn't alone in the way that he feels, and he had done these things for a good reason. Having a whole group of believers definitely makes the book much more interesting.
@class I found this book a lot more interesting than 1984 because in 1984, the way society was was very hard to imagine. But when I was reading this book, I could think of all the things in the book that were actually happening in our world. I thought it was much easier to relate to and it made it much more enjoyable for me to read.
I totally agree with you. I think that there has been a lot of things that are actually happening in today's society that happened in the book. I think that SOPA and things like that have really made me really interested in the book.
I agree as well. It scares me to see how similar our society is to the one in LITTLE BROTHER. There are many connections made and I really enjoyed hte book.
I agree also. There are many similarities between the book and our lives. It definitely makes the book a lot more interesting because we can imagine this happening in our society, unlike in 1984.
@Klarissa~ I feel like the introduction of Van's interest in Marcus was to prove that just because they are out to take down the DHS doesn't mean they're not teenagers. They still get caught up in petty dramas and friendship problems despite their heroism.
@Klarissa I disagree. I think Marcus does like Van. I just don't think he realized that he liked her until it was too late. On page 336 he says he knew exactly what he was doing when he kissed her back.
@Kathryn I agree but I think that Marcus had realized that he liked Van a long time ago but he wanted to leave her for Darryl since Darryl was his best friend and he had loved his friend so much and he only wanted to best for Darryl it seems. I agree with some other people have said with how it really is like the way that teenagers are acting today with where they aren't really decisive.
@Baergan~ Also, 1984 was dystopia with a major undertone of political and socioeconomic distress. (sorry to use big words there). Basically, 1984 was about government at the time as well as a dystopian future, and this book was also, but we understand this government because we are living it.
Room 101 in 1984 was the worst thing in the world for whoever was inside of it. Was waterboarding the worst thing in the world for Marcus once it happened to him? He talked about how terrible it was having his brain lose all control of his body.
Like what Mrs.Moritz just said, he has been tortured, interrogated and brainwashed for so long that he can't think otherwise. Any person would be reduced to that after so much time spent tortured.
@Kathryn He probably was very strong. To a certain point. After all, he is only a teenager, and humans can only take so much before they crack. It was probably the constant questioning that Jeb had talked about to Marcus. I'm sure that they physically tortured him too either with the solitude that they had put him in with his cell or like the water boarding with Marcus.
I think he had just been so totured, sitting in that cell and being interrogated by the DHS that at some point, anyone is going to crack. And he may be the son of a military man, but he hasn't been through the same things as his dad and so he wouldn't be as strong.
Actually, as the son of a military man, that means nothing. Honestly if anything, without affection from his father, it makes Darryl weaker. And you see, Marcus broke down within days. The DHS had been doing that to Darryl for months. I think Marcus would have been in the exact, if not worse, state of mind.
I agree with Heidi, just because he was the son of a military man doesn't mean that he has the strength to not be broken. Even military mean can be broken, and he showed many weaknesses including his affection towards his father. The weaknesses can be used against him to break him. Any one of the people in this book could have ended up in Darryl's state if they had gone through what he had.
@Willie I think just the idea of giving his login and password up is "room 101" for Marcus. After the first time he was captured, he said he hated how vulnerable he had felt. I think that's the ultimate torture for him.
I agree with Mrs. Moritz. Derryl was tortured, physically, they took everything from him. He had to keep his life by changing his mindset. That's not insanity. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over thinking that there will be a different outcome. Derryl changed he changed so the outcome would change. No it's not a level of insanity its just mental distress. There was so much stress he had to actually withdrawl and his brain has changed because his body was going through constant pain and his brain wanted it to stop.
@ Kathryn C.--- I'm sure Darryl stood as strong as he could for a period of time, but it was probably hard for him to stay strong when he was being tortured and brainwashed. Being imprisoned for so long has left Darryl as a changed man. Any person in his position would have been changed.
@Class I was so proud of Marcus for not giving in to the DHS and telling them his passwords. It just shows how much stronger he got. I was so happy that Marcus finally told people about what happened to him after the bombing. It was great that he stopped fearing the DHS.
I think this was in the epilogue...But when Marcus made the video addressing his torture, he mentioned that to keep what happened to him and California from happening, you have to become politically active. Was that the moral of the story? Was this a politically driven book? It makes sense and when I think about it, so was 1984. I mean of course the two books are about the evils of the government, but I guess this makes me reconsider the fact that 1984 was written to inform the public (in the gruesome-ist way possible), to become politically active and to keep 1984 from happening.
It could have been a political message but I also think that it was to show teenagers and even adults what is happening in our society and how far everything can be taken.
This was the epilogue. Yes, Orwell may have tried to write 1984 as a warning about tyrannical society, but it has just turned into a classic story more than something taken seriously.
@Class~ a little bit of background on Elizabeth Smart~ she was kidnapped from her home on June 5th 2002 when she was 14 years old. She was abducted while her sister slept in the same room. After performing illicit activities (school appropriateness) and forcing her to drink alcohol until she lowered her resistance. She was found 9 months later only 18 miles from her home.
@Class I'm almost positive that this was in the epilogue but what do you all think about the severe hair cut lady being let out free almost completely without punishment and free?
It was completely unruly, it wasn't right at all, she tortured hundreds maybe thousands of people just to get simple things they could hack into. So in no way was it reasonable for her to get off completely free.
I don't like how she was let out almost completely free. She committed a lot of severe crimes and even though she thought she was doing her job the line should have been drawn somewhere.
Although they did detain him without fair trial and tortured him, what Marcus did was illegal. He will still be charged by a jury because yes, he was the protagonist, but he also was a criminal.
@Katie I think they are different sides of the same coin. M1k3y and Marcus are separate personalities of the same person. An example would be the villain Two Face from The Dark Knight. He has two sides to his personality: a civilized side and an uncivilized side. I am not saying that Marcus and M1k3y are split to that extreme but, they are definitely two different personalities; think of heads and tails on a coin.
What do you guys think about Barbara coming with her "rescue team"? I didn't think it was really a rescue. Many of them had to still go to jail for charges. It was also cruel how they video taped the liberation. No one wants to be exposed like that, even if it's for the public.
@ Inner circle--- Honestly, I would rather watch a murderer walk free than to see an innocent man be imprisoned. This man has rights and it is not fair at all for his rights to be taken away for no reason. I would rather have the DHS let a few potential terrorists go free than to have them mercilessly interrogate and imprison innocent people.
@ Willie I definitely think that that the waterboarding that Marcus experienced was the equivalent to the pain and suffering experienced in room 101. I have never experienced it and hope never to, but just hearing about what happens in that process is just appalling. The DHS and the government of Big Brother are quite similar in that sense.
@Vanessa Back to your comment about whether Marcus should have choose Van or Ange - I think that he should have chosen Van. I think she appeals to me more, because to me she seems to see the consequences of future actions, I just like her better. Also- funny thing- every time I would read about Van- I totally could see you in my mind! You totally remind me of her! (Funny how your names are the same, right?)
@Klarissa But if Marcus had chosen Van do you think that the book would have turned out the way it had? Personally I think that if Marcus had chosen Van then the events that had happened to change society and extinguish the DHS wouldn't have happened due to the fact that Van didn't want to get involved.
Another thing that I really liked about the ending of this book is how Marcus didn't give in to the waterboarding. I actually think that his first trip to the DHS made him stronger and was a good experience for him to have. Obviously, nothing in this story would have happened had he not been captured the first time, but I think that was what allowed him to perservere in the end.
This is where I think a fictional element of the story comes in. Waterboarding is so bad looking, I don't think you would be able to stay defiant after it.
interesting...you think that is original arrest made him stronger? After witnessing in the book the countless times he broke down crying? I don't think it was the first arrest that made him stronger, I think it was that his belief in his values (freedom, etc) strengthening that allowed him to withstand the torture. A man with a purpose is harder to break, harder to kill.
I agree with Willie, but you are right. If Marcus hadn't been imprisoned the first time, I don't think he would have been as strong, but even the toughest military members give in to waterboarding. In my current events class we learned that a high military official gave in within 3 minutes, so I definetly think this is a totally fictional part of the book.
@Kathryn~ He was still charged because he was performing illegal activities. Just because he is the protagonist and the hero doesn't mean that he was not a criminal.
I think that Marcus was strong enough that he would not have been broken. I don't know what the DHS would have done to him, but I think he would have rather died fighting than give him his password
I agree. I would hate to see an innocent man go to jail for something that he didn't do. It reminds me of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azcaban, Sirius Black is in prison for twelve years for something that he didn't do, while Peter Petegrew went free.
@Elly I doubt that the ending would have been the same. At some point it was stated that Marcus had sent Jeb Masha's email since they are now both living underground and in hiding. If Marcus had followed Masha then he probably would just be giving in and kept in hiding.
If Marcus had run, the DHS would continue their reign. I mean eventually they would have been overthrown, but he sped up the process before it became riots and deaths. But heroes don't run.
@Inner Circle With what Taylor said you don't know what they are feeling or going through, till you have walked a mile in their shoes and feel the same pain.
@Brooke I hate that severe haircut lady was only sent out of the country. I'm glad she was, but how could she not be brought on charges. They had plenty of evidence. Do you think the government knew that she was so horrible, or were they on her side?
@Maggie I think i agree with you but... We should never be in a situation where there is a choice between the two. That is why our founding fathers put in place laws and rules that protect inalienable rights of the individual. One of which is protection, protection against other people and if we stick with those outlines we will never really be in a situation where that choice will have to be made.
@Class
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of the ending of "Little Brother"? Do you think that it was a more satisfying ending than that of "1984"?
I think that this books ending was way more satisfying than 1984. Even though they have many similarities I found this book much more interesting and entertaining. Probably because it was written in much more of a modern setting.
DeleteI agree the modern setting helped a lot with the liking of this book instead. 1984 was kind of dry honestly.
DeleteYeah, I agree completely with Alexis! I much more preferred this book over 1984.
DeleteI found the ending of this book to be much more satisfying than 1984. There are many similarities but because of modern entertainment and action movies the ending was much more exciting and amusing compared the less enthusiatic ending of 1984.
DeleteI think the end of the book was way better than 1984. I actually wanted Marcus to succeed but Winston just annoyed me. I also think the modern setting was a lot easier and more entertaining to read.
DeleteI agree. The ending in "Little Brother" was a lot more satisfying. It actually left the reader feeling like the book has been completed, unlike "1984" which left the reader feeling bored and very uninformed. I think that "Little Brother" is more interesting because of the face that it relates more to our lives now. Overall the ending was great in my opinion.
Delete@Brooke
ReplyDeleteIt was much more satisfying. He actually defeated the DHS instead of them brainwashing him successfully. This is much better. It's not only a happy ending, it shows freedom's victory over tyranny.
Although I like that Marcus won, I feel that the ending of 1984 made a greater impact. To me, the success of Winston's brainwashing...it's terrifying. It shows that we succumb to society and peer pressure, etc, despite knowing about it and the dangers of conforming. I know that I "conform" (ugh how many times have I used that word this year?) and yet I know that it's "wrong" (is it wrong? I don't know) to do...I may not have liked 194 as much, but it made me think more rather than Little Brother which was just a "rooting for freedom" book. for me at least
Delete@Brooke
ReplyDeleteI really liked the ending of the book. It seemed like everything that Marcus did made a difference in the world. I really wanted all of Marcus' efforts to pay off. I was so happy(:
@class-
ReplyDeleteWhat did you think about the vampire gathering they had at the civic center? What was the actual purpose Marcus was aiming for? Was it reasonable?
It didn't seem like it was the actual purpose that Marcus was aiming for since after he seemed almost freaked out about the turn out and losing Ange among the crowd. He said that he just wanted a distraction but the vampire scene was more than just a distraction. It was a brilliant idea for a distraction against what he was trying to do but he didn't think it through very well since it seemed to actually scare all of the business men and make them all panic.
DeleteI loved the vamp mob. I thought it was a brilliant way to make the connection with Masha. Marcus is a pretty smart kid.
DeleteIt was brilliant. He wanted a simple fun game to make an effect on people. It didn't do what he wanted and resulted in many arrests, but it worked anyway. He was aiming to make another impression on the DHS and the population of San Francisco. It was completely reasonable.
DeleteI agree that the gathering was brilliant. He had found a way to get everyone together and effect the DHS without being completely violent. Although, it did cause many arrests. Either way it was a great idea.
DeleteIt broke my heart when Masha wouldn't let Marcus go back for Ange. How did you guys feel about that? Do you think that was a smart decision on her part? Do you think Marcus would have stayed with Masha if he would have had Ange with him?
ReplyDeleteThat was really sad but I think that she did it because she wanted to make sure that Marcus was safe. I'm sure Masha knew what the DHS wanted to do to Marcus when they caught him. I'm not really sure if Marcus would have stayed if Ange was there. I think it would really depend on how Ange was reacting and what she thought of Masha. Though I doubt that it would have been such a crazy way to take everything.
DeleteIt made me mad when Masha wouldn't let Marcus go back for Ange, however in the long run I think that it was a smart decision. And I really think that without Masha telling Marcus to leave Ange then he would have went back for her.
DeleteI thought it was very upsetting, but it was for a good reason. If Marcus would have gone back, the DHS most likely would have hurt him or used his weaknesses against him. Overall Masha made a smart decision.
DeleteI definitely think that Marcus would have stayed back for Ange because he has come to like her very much and she is someone that he feels safe around and can tell her anything and doesn't have to worry about it getting out to the public. Masha forced him to do something against his will and he was devastated about it.
Delete@Brooke:
ReplyDeleteThe ending of Little Brother was so much better. He won, instead of a pointless, disappointing ending like in 1984.
I agree. In 1984, Winston fought the government, but in the end it didn't really matter. I feel like in Little Brother Marcus really achieved something, and his efforst weren't shot down and didn't go to waste.
DeleteI loathed the ending of 1984. I fell bad for Winston because all of his effort was lost. Marcus had the intelligence and the knowledge of what freedom was like. He was able to accomplish more from his knowledge then Winston.
Delete@Elly
ReplyDeleteI agree, I really wanted Marcus and Ange to get away. I wanted them to be together, just because of how much Ange meant to Marcus. I actually started to like her.
@Elly
ReplyDeleteI was really mad when Masha wouldn't let him go back for Ange.
@ Brooke--- The ending of the book was much more satisfying that that of 1984. In 1984, Winston failed in his efforts to bring justice to his society. In Little Brother, Marcus succeeded. I was happy to see that all of his work finally made a difference.
ReplyDelete@elly
ReplyDeleteI think it was a smart decision and I think that Ange would have pushed Marcus to leave or do other things.
How do you think the quote, "Be like Ma1k3y: step out the door and dare to be free." applies to Marcus? What do you feel the significance of this is?
ReplyDeleteHe just doesn't want to be unfairly restricted. Marcus is willing to fight for his freedom. The significance is that the American people won't let themselves live under a society like Little Brother's.
DeleteIt shows that Marcus dared to do the unimaginable and venture outside his comfort zone. Also to begin to do what has to be done.
DeleteMarcus doesn't wish to be restricted any longer, so he believes that he must become like Ma1k3y to be free. The significance is that the American government is never supposed to be controlling like that, so he refuses to live under that type of government.
Delete@Vanessa:
ReplyDeleteThe characters in this book are really likable. We don't despise them like we did Winston and Julia.
@Blake
ReplyDeleteI think the vampire gathering served its purpose. It got him away from the crowd with Masha. However, I think that it wasn't a good idea just because it dragged so many other people into it. I felt bad that innocent people were being used and ended up getting gassed when they just wanted to have fun.
@ Blake
ReplyDeleteI think that the vampire gathering was intended to be a showing of how many people are with Marcus and how powerful the Xnet is. They were also trying to make the DHS look bad by faking the use of pepper spray when the orders to disassemble came.
@Class
ReplyDeleteSo as to last week's fishbowl- we were debating whether or not their was a relationship between Van and Marcus. I don't think that Marcus ever liked Van, but I do think it is obvious that Van did like Marcus a little.
yep!
Deletewell it was eventually stated she did like him in the last few chapters, but before that, yes you're right there was something about how Van really liked Marcus, but Marcus didn't feel that way.
Delete@ Blake
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a great plan. At first I was thinking that it was a bad idea and that nobody would want to participate. I guess I had a hard time imagining high school kids dressing up as vampires and then going out in public. Then I thought about it some more, and if someone I looked up to, Taylor Swift for example, said to wear a vampire outfit to her concert, I would.
I thought it was a great distraction.
@Katie
ReplyDeleteI think that these characters are more like us so we feel more compassion for them.
@Lexi
ReplyDeleteI think that quote means that Marcus should take a risk to organize a rebellion against the DHS. M1k3y was a hero figure to the Xnetters.
@Blake I think the Vamp Mob was a good idea to start but it eventually grew into something that Marcus or anyone couldn’t handle. It started off reasonable but, grew way out of proportion when they pretended to be gassed. When they pretended to be gassed they were provoking a stampede of people.
ReplyDelete@Katie
ReplyDeleteI think that Marcus and Ange are more likable because I think we can relate more to them especially because they are in the same generation that we are in. I also tend to think that they are a little more smart than Winston and Julia were.
@Klarissa:
ReplyDeleteA little?!? She liked him a LOT, and he was completely oblivious. Marcus, it seems, was never interested.
@ Elly--- It wasn't very smart of Masha to keep Marcus from going back for Ange. She should have understood how much Marcus cared about Ange. If Masha had let Marcus go back to get Ange, it is much more likely that he would have stayed since he was with her.
ReplyDeleteWould Marcus have still gone along? He made up his mind to stop running and to fight, although if he knew fighting involved being waterboarded, he might have run away. But because Marcus stood up for what he believed in, he made a difference, and for the better I might add. And through Little Brother Doctorow is teaching us to stand for what we believe in, where as Orwell taught that no matter what you do, you can't win. And while I'm inclined to agree with Doctorow's optimistic views, Orwells message seems, sadly, more realistic.
Delete@klarissa
ReplyDeleteI don't think that their was a relationship between Van and Marcus, but I definitely think they had feelings for each other.
@Alexis
ReplyDeleteIt shows that M1k3y was Marcus's way of starting a rebellion beyond what he himself could have done in person. He was able to gather tons more people through their games.
@Class
ReplyDeleteBeing the girl that I am, I was somewhat upset that Van and Marcus never got to be together. Do you think Marcus should have chosen her or Ange?
Considering how involved Marcus is with Ange, I would hate to see him dump her to see what would happen with Van. Even though I don't completely love Ange--I think she deserves Marcus.
DeleteI think Marcus should of chosen Van, but they have known each other for so long, it's awkward for them, nice to us. I think us as readers would of liked to have seen that, but Marcus and Van may haven't seen them together and couples.
DeleteWell, Marcus doesn't seem to like Van like he does Ange. I think he should have chosen her like he did because he has many more feelings for her than Van.
DeleteI agree with Savannah, I think that Marcus should have chosen Van. Although, they have been friends for a long time and many times people like that are stuck in the "friend zone." I don't believe that Marcus thought of Van as more of a friend, so they wouldn't really end up as a couple in the book.
Delete@Vanessa:
ReplyDeleteI would say Van. He had known her his whole life, and he just met Ange.
@Klarissa
ReplyDeleteI think that Ange and Marcus are a lot smarter than Winston and Julia. Ange and Marcus actually wanted to make a difference. Winston and Julia were afraid to do anything.
I agree, I think that Ange was a lot more laid back than Julia was.
Delete@Class
ReplyDeleteOn page 352 it stated, "That's when they opened Darryl's cell. He had shredded his paper hospital gown. He was curled up, naked, in the back of the cell, shielding himself from the camera and our stares." and "He trembled and squeezed his eyes shut. 'I'm sorry,' he whispered, and turned his face away." What do you think is the significance of these two quotes? What could the DHS had done to Darryl to break him so badly?
:( Poor Darryl. I cannot imagine what they did to break him. Probably a lot of torture (that I can't imagine)and brainwashing.
DeleteI feel that what they did to Darryl is awful. They must have tortured him till the breaking point, and left him feeling as though he had betrayed his closest friends. That would make any person feel bad about themselves.
Delete@Katie
ReplyDeleteWell, like we talked about in last week's fishbowl, I think that Marcus never liked Van because he was always protecting the fact that Darryl liked Van.
@Micheal
ReplyDeleteI definitely think Van had feelings for Marcus bacuase of the way she treated him diferently from her other friends. She would kiss him and she got the most emotional when he decided to try to start a rebelion and she thought he would get in trouble so she wanted him to stop and stay safe.
@Gabe I agree but is was a one way relationship. Marcus didn’t have feelings for Van because he knew that Darryl liked Van and he couldn’t go behind his friends back. It is part of the bro code; you don’t go behind your bro’s back.
Delete@Class
ReplyDeleteHow would you guys feel if you saw the cover title with the news story about you on it? Would you guys have been able to control your emotions.
@Class:
ReplyDeleteWe are acting like M1k3y and Marcus are two different people. Do you think they are?
I don't think so. They are the same person, but it's a lot like how we all act today. We are so much stronger through our computers, with something to hide behind. He was a brave coward to begin with but in the end I believe that he really showed his M1k3y personality in person when he had to.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Class--- What did you think about Nate and Liam? I thought that it was really interesting to see how much these kids truly adored Marcus. They treated him like he was a celebrity. It showed that M1k3y always was really looked up to by the X-netters.
ReplyDeleteI was super excited to see that there were people admiring Marcus. It was great to see that everything Marcus did was for a good cause. I was overflowing with happiness(:
DeleteIt was great to see that people had looked up to Marcus. He isn't alone in the way that he feels, and he had done these things for a good reason. Having a whole group of believers definitely makes the book much more interesting.
Delete@class
ReplyDeleteI found this book a lot more interesting than 1984 because in 1984, the way society was was very hard to imagine. But when I was reading this book, I could think of all the things in the book that were actually happening in our world. I thought it was much easier to relate to and it made it much more enjoyable for me to read.
I totally agree with you. I think that there has been a lot of things that are actually happening in today's society that happened in the book. I think that SOPA and things like that have really made me really interested in the book.
DeleteI agree as well. It scares me to see how similar our society is to the one in LITTLE BROTHER. There are many connections made and I really enjoyed hte book.
DeleteI agree also. There are many similarities between the book and our lives. It definitely makes the book a lot more interesting because we can imagine this happening in our society, unlike in 1984.
Delete@Klarissa~ I feel like the introduction of Van's interest in Marcus was to prove that just because they are out to take down the DHS doesn't mean they're not teenagers. They still get caught up in petty dramas and friendship problems despite their heroism.
ReplyDelete@Elli
ReplyDeleteI agree. Van really is the typical image of a teenage girl.
@Klarissa
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I think Marcus does like Van. I just don't think he realized that he liked her until it was too late. On page 336 he says he knew exactly what he was doing when he kissed her back.
@Kathryn
DeleteI agree but I think that Marcus had realized that he liked Van a long time ago but he wanted to leave her for Darryl since Darryl was his best friend and he had loved his friend so much and he only wanted to best for Darryl it seems. I agree with some other people have said with how it really is like the way that teenagers are acting today with where they aren't really decisive.
True, I think this could also be a possibility. But maybe Marcus is just trying to fill that empty spot where Ange was.
DeleteYeah- I think that of course it is all a part of making the book appeal to all different readers.
ReplyDeletelast comment @ Elli S
Delete@Brooke
ReplyDeleteThey just slowly took away things from him and used physical torture and he will never recover from that.
I agree I would say that he is traumatized. Being traumatized is hard to recover from that.
Delete@Baergan~ Also, 1984 was dystopia with a major undertone of political and socioeconomic distress. (sorry to use big words there). Basically, 1984 was about government at the time as well as a dystopian future, and this book was also, but we understand this government because we are living it.
ReplyDelete@Class
ReplyDeleteRoom 101 in 1984 was the worst thing in the world for whoever was inside of it. Was waterboarding the worst thing in the world for Marcus once it happened to him? He talked about how terrible it was having his brain lose all control of his body.
@class
ReplyDeleteWhen Marcus found Daryl, he was so broken. As the son of a military man, I would think he would be strong. What do you think cracked him?
Like what Mrs.Moritz just said, he has been tortured, interrogated and brainwashed for so long that he can't think otherwise. Any person would be reduced to that after so much time spent tortured.
Delete@Kathryn
DeleteHe probably was very strong. To a certain point. After all, he is only a teenager, and humans can only take so much before they crack. It was probably the constant questioning that Jeb had talked about to Marcus. I'm sure that they physically tortured him too either with the solitude that they had put him in with his cell or like the water boarding with Marcus.
I think what Mrs. Moritz said is probably what happened to him. The DHS probably threatened his friends, family or his own life.
DeleteI think he had just been so totured, sitting in that cell and being interrogated by the DHS that at some point, anyone is going to crack. And he may be the son of a military man, but he hasn't been through the same things as his dad and so he wouldn't be as strong.
DeleteActually, as the son of a military man, that means nothing. Honestly if anything, without affection from his father, it makes Darryl weaker. And you see, Marcus broke down within days. The DHS had been doing that to Darryl for months. I think Marcus would have been in the exact, if not worse, state of mind.
DeleteI agree with Heidi, just because he was the son of a military man doesn't mean that he has the strength to not be broken. Even military mean can be broken, and he showed many weaknesses including his affection towards his father. The weaknesses can be used against him to break him. Any one of the people in this book could have ended up in Darryl's state if they had gone through what he had.
Delete@Klarissa:
ReplyDeleteDid you just say that petty dramas are appealing? Honestly, that part was stupid, in my opinion.
They may be stupid but every teenager can relate to them.
DeleteAgreed Baergen agreed!
Delete@Willie
ReplyDeleteI think just the idea of giving his login and password up is "room 101" for Marcus. After the first time he was captured, he said he hated how vulnerable he had felt. I think that's the ultimate torture for him.
@Katie
ReplyDeleteI agree, I personally didn't care for that part of the book, what I'm saying is that for some people, pretty dramas are appealing.
I agree with Mrs. Moritz. Derryl was tortured, physically, they took everything from him. He had to keep his life by changing his mindset. That's not insanity. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over thinking that there will be a different outcome. Derryl changed he changed so the outcome would change. No it's not a level of insanity its just mental distress. There was so much stress he had to actually withdrawl and his brain has changed because his body was going through constant pain and his brain wanted it to stop.
ReplyDelete@ Kathryn C.--- I'm sure Darryl stood as strong as he could for a period of time, but it was probably hard for him to stay strong when he was being tortured and brainwashed. Being imprisoned for so long has left Darryl as a changed man. Any person in his position would have been changed.
ReplyDelete@Class
ReplyDeleteI was so proud of Marcus for not giving in to the DHS and telling them his passwords. It just shows how much stronger he got. I was so happy that Marcus finally told people about what happened to him after the bombing. It was great that he stopped fearing the DHS.
@Katie
ReplyDeleteI think that some people like the drama. It's like gossip, some people just can't get enough of it.
@ class
ReplyDeleteI think this was in the epilogue...But when Marcus made the video addressing his torture, he mentioned that to keep what happened to him and California from happening, you have to become politically active. Was that the moral of the story? Was this a politically driven book? It makes sense and when I think about it, so was 1984. I mean of course the two books are about the evils of the government, but I guess this makes me reconsider the fact that 1984 was written to inform the public (in the gruesome-ist way possible), to become politically active and to keep 1984 from happening.
It could have been a political message but I also think that it was to show teenagers and even adults what is happening in our society and how far everything can be taken.
DeleteThis was the epilogue. Yes, Orwell may have tried to write 1984 as a warning about tyrannical society, but it has just turned into a classic story more than something taken seriously.
Delete@Class~ a little bit of background on Elizabeth Smart~ she was kidnapped from her home on June 5th 2002 when she was 14 years old. She was abducted while her sister slept in the same room. After performing illicit activities (school appropriateness) and forcing her to drink alcohol until she lowered her resistance. She was found 9 months later only 18 miles from her home.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info Elli!
Delete@Toni:
ReplyDeleteOkay. I can understand that point of view.
@Class
ReplyDeleteI'm almost positive that this was in the epilogue but what do you all think about the severe hair cut lady being let out free almost completely without punishment and free?
That's wrong. She committed crimes against humanity by torturing and interrogating so many people. I don't know why they didn't convict her.
DeleteIt was completely unruly, it wasn't right at all, she tortured hundreds maybe thousands of people just to get simple things they could hack into. So in no way was it reasonable for her to get off completely free.
DeleteI don't like how she was let out almost completely free. She committed a lot of severe crimes and even though she thought she was doing her job the line should have been drawn somewhere.
Delete@Inner Circle~
ReplyDelete1) Water boarding was classified as cruel and unusual punishment by the Supreme Court. There was a controversy about it 2ish years ago.
@Kathryn~ On the topic of still being charged--
DeleteAlthough they did detain him without fair trial and tortured him, what Marcus did was illegal. He will still be charged by a jury because yes, he was the protagonist, but he also was a criminal.
@Katie I think they are different sides of the same coin. M1k3y and Marcus are separate personalities of the same person. An example would be the villain Two Face from The Dark Knight. He has two sides to his personality: a civilized side and an uncivilized side. I am not saying that Marcus and M1k3y are split to that extreme but, they are definitely two different personalities; think of heads and tails on a coin.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you guys think about Barbara coming with her "rescue team"? I didn't think it was really a rescue. Many of them had to still go to jail for charges. It was also cruel how they video taped the liberation. No one wants to be exposed like that, even if it's for the public.
ReplyDelete@ Inner circle--- Honestly, I would rather watch a murderer walk free than to see an innocent man be imprisoned. This man has rights and it is not fair at all for his rights to be taken away for no reason. I would rather have the DHS let a few potential terrorists go free than to have them mercilessly interrogate and imprison innocent people.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Maggie. This goes back to the quote about safety vs. rights. Is it right to take away peoples rights in order for them to feel safe?
Delete@Brooke:
ReplyDeleteNot. Okay. The government has no right to do that.
@Katie
DeleteDo you think that Marcus is going to do anything about it anymore though?
@ Willie
ReplyDeleteI definitely think that that the waterboarding that Marcus experienced was the equivalent to the pain and suffering experienced in room 101. I have never experienced it and hope never to, but just hearing about what happens in that process is just appalling. The DHS and the government of Big Brother are quite similar in that sense.
@Vanessa
ReplyDeleteBack to your comment about whether Marcus should have choose Van or Ange - I think that he should have chosen Van. I think she appeals to me more, because to me she seems to see the consequences of future actions, I just like her better. Also- funny thing- every time I would read about Van- I totally could see you in my mind! You totally remind me of her! (Funny how your names are the same, right?)
@Klarissa
DeleteBut if Marcus had chosen Van do you think that the book would have turned out the way it had? Personally I think that if Marcus had chosen Van then the events that had happened to change society and extinguish the DHS wouldn't have happened due to the fact that Van didn't want to get involved.
@Brooke
DeleteI agree with you, but I personally like how Van doesn't just join the band-wagon every time. She tries to think through things first.
Another thing that I really liked about the ending of this book is how Marcus didn't give in to the waterboarding. I actually think that his first trip to the DHS made him stronger and was a good experience for him to have. Obviously, nothing in this story would have happened had he not been captured the first time, but I think that was what allowed him to perservere in the end.
ReplyDeleteThis is where I think a fictional element of the story comes in. Waterboarding is so bad looking, I don't think you would be able to stay defiant after it.
Deleteinteresting...you think that is original arrest made him stronger? After witnessing in the book the countless times he broke down crying? I don't think it was the first arrest that made him stronger, I think it was that his belief in his values (freedom, etc) strengthening that allowed him to withstand the torture. A man with a purpose is harder to break, harder to kill.
Delete@Willie~ exactly. It is rumoured that members of Al Qaeda were waterboarded by Americans. It is real and physical torture.
DeleteI agree with Willie, but you are right. If Marcus hadn't been imprisoned the first time, I don't think he would have been as strong, but even the toughest military members give in to waterboarding. In my current events class we learned that a high military official gave in within 3 minutes, so I definetly think this is a totally fictional part of the book.
Delete@Brooke:
ReplyDeleteI don't know that he will, but I think he should.
@Kathryn~ He was still charged because he was performing illegal activities. Just because he is the protagonist and the hero doesn't mean that he was not a criminal.
ReplyDelete@Klarissa
ReplyDeleteI would just like to point out that she's asian too. I think Cory Doctorow was writing about me, he just didn't know it yet(:
@Vanessa
DeleteYep- he was foreshadowing you!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Inner Circle:
ReplyDeleteDo you think that if Marcus had stayed with the DHS longer he would have been broken? Would he have given up his password in the end?
I think that Marcus was strong enough that he would not have been broken. I don't know what the DHS would have done to him, but I think he would have rather died fighting than give him his password
Delete@Maggie
ReplyDeleteI agree. I would hate to see an innocent man go to jail for something that he didn't do. It reminds me of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azcaban, Sirius Black is in prison for twelve years for something that he didn't do, while Peter Petegrew went free.
@Toni
DeleteText to text with Harry Potter! Yeah!
@Elly
ReplyDeleteI doubt that the ending would have been the same. At some point it was stated that Marcus had sent Jeb Masha's email since they are now both living underground and in hiding. If Marcus had followed Masha then he probably would just be giving in and kept in hiding.
last thoughts...
ReplyDelete@ Class
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think would have happened if Marcus would have stayed with Masha? Do you think the book would have had a similar outcome?
If Marcus had run, the DHS would continue their reign. I mean eventually they would have been overthrown, but he sped up the process before it became riots and deaths. But heroes don't run.
Delete@Vanessa~ oh, absolutely.
ReplyDelete@Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteWith what Taylor said you don't know what they are feeling or going through, till you have walked a mile in their shoes and feel the same pain.
According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
DeleteIt does cause a lot of pain to be waterboarded.
@Brooke
ReplyDeleteI hate that severe haircut lady was only sent out of the country. I'm glad she was, but how could she not be brought on charges. They had plenty of evidence. Do you think the government knew that she was so horrible, or were they on her side?
@Maggie
ReplyDeleteI think i agree with you but... We should never be in a situation where there is a choice between the two. That is why our founding fathers put in place laws and rules that protect inalienable rights of the individual. One of which is protection, protection against other people and if we stick with those outlines we will never really be in a situation where that choice will have to be made.