What do you guys think of Darryl? Do you think he'll come back or will he be like Syme who only appeared in one or two chapters and then disappeared? The cover of the book has 3 kids on it. Does this imply something?
I don't think it could possibly be Alcatraz because it is not even in use any more. I think that if the DHS was torturing people it would not be at a tourist attraction.
I really hope that this ISN'T realistic. I think that it possibly could happen, but I really hope it never would. I think that the way they questioned him really happens in real life, but not the way they tortured him.
@class - Would Marcus and his friends have been picked up the Department of Homeland Security if he hadn't stepped out into the middle of the street and yelled at the car? Why didn't he look to see if it was a police car or ambulance first?
@Casey I think that marcus is kindof a whimp. In 1984 Winston faces true torture that shows him great pain, Marcus just doesnt eat for 2 days and had a sore sholder.
@Casey The torturing in Little Brother seems to be less as intense as in 1984. However, both O'Brien and The Department of Homeland Security had the same effect on Marcus and Winston. Both felt exposed and like they had their identity taken away almost. But then, Winston had a different torture because he has different weaknesses than Marcus.
I agree with the difference between the tourturing between the 2 books. Maybe it's because it's a more humane society, meaning we're able to relate to the setting and the characters more than we were able to in 1984.
@Casey The torturing in 1984 is a lot more to do with threts, and the normal people didn't really have technology. Compaired to Little Brother where the kids are more technologicly advanced than the adults. Also the tortureing in 1984 was much more seviere than it is in Little Brother.
I think the government just needed someone to blame and he was an easy target because he is young and he gave them an excuse to suspect him by not giving the passwords.
I think because of a different reason. I think that they know something else about him that maybe he doesn't know or they think he is the main suspect because of what he has done with technology.
@ Kathryn I deffinitely think that Darryl won't be a main character in the story. But the fact that he's such a mystery makes me think that he will come back into the fold at some point.
@Rick Every other car that passed them was a police car or ambulance, and none of them stopped. He had to do something to take care of his friend and he just assumed that the next car to come along would be an ambulence. He couldn't have been able to tell the difference from the front.
@ Taylor B I think that Marcus is pretty strong. He stood up to the authorities. He was stubborn and refused to tell them his passwords for many days. Marcus explained to the people interrogating him that their actions were unconstitutional.
@Casey In 1984, there was more physical torture, but in Little Brother, they promised Marcus that he would be allowed some luxury if he shared the information. I think that in both books, both Winston and Marcus were both mentally tortured, but Marcus' torture is trivial compared to Winston's.
I think that DEFINITELY stands out. I don't think he would have included it in the book if it didn't. I think that it will play some part in the way he proves his innocence or finds the terrorists or something...
@Rick I think that if you, or any of us, were in that situation, we would have all yelled at anybody we could find too. I mean, a massive bomb has just gone off, his best friend is bleeding out on the sidewalk, and he is scared. At that point, I think he was just looking for *anyone* to help him. If I was in that situation, I wouldn't wait for a police car or ambulance. I would ask anybody I could find for help, and that's what Marcus did.
That's very true, everything has happening very fast. So he just reacted. But would he still have been picked up if he hadn't jumped out in front of the car?
Honestly, I don't know. On one hand, he is outside when no one else is. On the other hand, he wouldn't be drawing attention to himself like he did when he jumped in front of the car.
@ Ellen I'm not sure. I think that the security system today is willing to be a little more harsh than what we've been lead to beleive. They must be worried about terrorists, but the fact that they tortured kids has got to be extremely exagerated.
When Marcus get's home his parents inform him that the BART was bombed also after they left. I think its possible that because Darryl was hurt they just left him there instead and he would have died in that second bomb.
@Joe - I think that was part of the reason they were hard on him, but also just the fact that he has so many passwords. Most people's phones only have one simple code to open the phone; he had it coming because of all the downloads he had done. They probably had good reason to think that because of all his pass codes, he probably could be hiding secret messages
@Klarissa True. However, he barely faced anything all that gruesome. There are people who live in africa that their every day lives are Marcuses torture, how is it that Winston stays strong and withstands REAL torture, but they take away Marcuses food for a few days and he breaks down.
@Class Does anyone see similarities between the interrogation of Marcus and Winston being tortured? Marcus did say that he would’ve confessed to killing Abe Lincoln. Winston demonstrated the same kind of submission in 1984.
Yes, there do seem to be similarities in the feeling of the two characters. I think that anyone in that situation would feel like that, especially if they understand the possible results and consequences.
@ class What do you guys think about Marcus having to sign the papers saying that he submitted to questioning under his own free will? It sounds horrible! I can't beleive that this hasn't been exposed yet.
The people made him sign so that he felt totally and completely vulnerable. This would give them better control over him. It wasn't fair but they need to protect themselves in case he decides to go tell people what happened to him.
@Arman Marcus is so good with computers because he wants to make himself feel safer. He is able to lock down and encrypt anything he does so that it is the only safe place he ends up having. That is why he spends so much time getting around his SchoolBook so he can have his own freedom.
@Gabe Fair? Never. I don't think that we can talk about the government in terms of "fair" and "unfair". The entire idea of government is "unfair". However, I do think that what they were doing to Marcus and his friends was wrong. They picked him up and didn't give him any rights or a trial or anything that a normal suspect gets. The DHS did not abide by the old American adage "innocent until proven guilty".
@class Out of curiosity, how did the Department of Homeland Security know that there were 10 bombs I think used to blow up the Bay Bridge if it exploded? It's probably of no importance, but it's still interesting.
@ Class--- What do you think about Marcus's school? Why do they watch their students so much? It seems like Marcus has to find ways to adjust the technology so that he can keep his privacy.
@Class- Considering that Marcus wouldn't have felt so strongly against the government if they hadn't taken him and treated him so badly, do you think the government and the DHS are kicking themselves right now?
This seems to be the similarity Cory Doctorow is going for. He wants to show that the idea of 1984 still applies today, and the government will get what they want.
@Michael--I definitely agree with you. I found myself making those exact connections while reading this section of the book. It is crazy that Winston was beaten and tortured severely, while Marcus was only slightly tortured, but they still had the same intentions on telling them anything they wanted.
@Inner Circle The Patriot Act allows the government to do basically anything if they think you are a potential terrorist. They can wire tap, phone tap, spy, and do basically anything as long as you are thought to be a potential terrorist. The safety of the state is put over your rights.
@Inner Circle There are different kinds of torture. He was tortured in a mental state. The DHS wanted to break him mentally instead of physically because they didn't need him to be physically weaker they just wanted to get inside his head so he would forever be scared and wouldn't end up acting out again.
I think torture to the brain is much more effective then physical torture. It's like being scarred, mentally.Cuts and burns heal, when images and being mentally corrupted is
@ Klarissa Although the goverment had no right to treat Marcus the way they did, his torment wasn't all that bad. It was for "security" so maybe they thought it was right.
@Arman I think that what Marcus is doing at school is smart, but I think it's wrong and is part of the reason why he has gotten himself into so much trouble already.
I am surprised how hesitant Marcus was to give the passwords away. If I was in that situation Im would give them whatever they wanted. Who cares about privacy? I would be so scared I would do whatever they want and give up my privacy in a heart beat.
@Casey, Torturing kids is extremely exaggerated? Is it, though? I mean, if the government were to suspect that you, or I, or any of us, were to have something that could create a problem for them, they wouldn't compromise security simply because we are "kids". That's why kids aren't exempt from pat-downs at the airport. Because we are just as much of a threat as anyone else.
@Joe I think that Homeland Security still would have done the same thing because he is being treated as a potential terrorist, Home Land Security did their job.
@ Kathryn C.--- It is very interesting that the Department of Homeland Security knew that information about the attack. It seems very unlikely that they would have done anything to cause the attack, but it is still interesting.
@Michael I think that they are sort of the same, but on different levels. Marcus is a teenager whereas Winston is an older man. I think that the tolerance level would be different because of age. Marcus also has something to hope for such as family, but Winston doesn't have anything to fight for.
We are on camera in our school all of the time, so it's not that different. I think it's right that Marcus breaks the rules enforced upon them because they are so extreme. The gait-recognition cameras are hysterical though, and it seems like the exact same stupid choice a school would make today.
But at school, we are only watched if they need to watch someone specific or review tapes to see if something happened. At least in schools, I don't think that the security is this tight. In Marcus' school, I think they take security to a more extreme.
@Casey- I agree, it's horrible, but having him sign the papers is probably the only thing that they could do. It is awful and is a total mind game, but they couldn't let it get out that they are doing all this stuff to people- illegally. It is definitely a mind game. They are showing him just how much power they have over him.
@Lauren No, I disagree. I think they had no right to interogate him the way they did. I think he should have had the right to a trial first. Just because they are the DHS doesn't mean that they have that kind of power over us. I think they were way too harsh on him even before he resisted them.
If you think about it, if they had taken Marcus to a court/trial would it have been any fairer. Terrorism is a serious offense and I don't think even the court would have agreed with him unless he had a really, really convincing argument.
@Gabe If that is all it takes to break Marcus's mind he is a very week man. I suspect that he will be seeking revenge, he has to be stroner then he currently seems.
@Maggie The security at the school is to show how little privacy Marcus has. There was already high security before the bombing, and I'm sure it will get much worse.
@Michael- I do see the similarities in 1984 and this book and the way they are tortured, but I also see differences. In 1984, Winston had an immediate consequence if he answered wrong--he got electrocuted. But in this book, Marcus doesn't get immediate consequences, and I feel like that is why he has more strength to resist and why he resisted giving them the password to his phone for so long. I'm not sure Winston would have been able to do that. If Marcus had been told 2+2=5, I think he would have denied that for as long as he could, which would have been longer than Winston did.
@Class I think the reason they targeted Marcus was his resistance. They noticed that he would stand for his rights so they targeted him. They probably could have been able to unlock his phone on their own, but they wanteed to break him and control him.
I think this book is kind of like a revenge book for 1984. In 1984, the rebellion never happened, but I think in Little Brother something big is going to go down. Do you think that Cory Doctorow wrote this because he was unsatisfied with the ending of 1984? (Besides the fact that he wanted to write an awesome book.)
@Class Do you think that it is wise for Marcus to not tell his parents about what really happened to him? He is still 17, so he is technically still under his parents quarentine.
@Class- Why do you think that the DHS targeted Marcus? He willingly jumped in front of their van right after a bridge blew up. That means he obviously didn't do it. That would be like a thief leaping out in front of a police car right after he knocked over a casino. No one would do that! So why did the DHS choose him?
@Taylor B Yes they were doing there job, but they singled Marcus out. When he shared his experience with Jolu and Vaness he was treared much worse than they were.
@Joe- I think that a lot of us would be willing to give passwords away if we thought it would stop us from getting hurt. I think that Cory Doctrow, as an author, couldn't make Marcus just like us, though, because he is supposed to be a hero, of sorts. In real life, I probably would give away the passwords in a second. But I don't want to read about someone who would. Marcus is a hero.
@ Joe That is true, but really Marcus thought that he had a right that would protect him against an invasion of his privacy. He was just doing what he thought the Constitution and Bill of Rights give us.
@Class- On page 43, Marcus talks about what he thinks terrorist looks like and how he doesn't look anything like that. He says that they are Arabic people with turbans and beards....what does that symbolize about our society? I personally feel like we stereotype people who look like they are from the Middle East because of 9/11. Do you think that is an okay reaction after 9/11?
@Arman I don’t think the government dropped the bombs on themselves. What does the government have to gain by bombing a major commercial bridge? There is nothing to gain there but a destroyed bridge and a lot displaced people.
@ Klarissa I have to agree, they didn't have a right to interogate him that way. Although, this does happen now too. People who are suspected of terrorism lose all their rights when they are just a suspect. In their society, what Marcus was doing might have been seen more as an act of terror than it is in ours.
@Taylor It broke him because the only freedom he ends up having is through his electronics. All of his passwords and encryptions are the only way that he feels like he had freedom because all of the normal internet is cesored.
Why do you think Doctorow extensively describes technology in the book? Is it because he thinks it cool and interesting to us (Where's the sarcastic font?) or because he wants us to understand the kid and the society?
@Arman The class has touched on the subject throughout our different books, but we've never actually confirmed it in any of them. If I had to guess, I would say that there isn't a conspiracy.
1984 was scary, but it seemed much more far-fetched than this book. The government in Little Brother seems eerily similar to our government today. Maybe Doctorow wrote this book to show readers that even though the year 1984 has passed, the powerful government Orwell described could still come to exist.
I don't know if Mr. Meyers is just getting to me or not, but it really intimidates me and scares me that this happened. I guess I can see why they did this, but I can't see how this is being covered up.
@Ellen- I feel like they know more about Marcus than he knows about himself. I also don't understand why they would pick him up and SUSPECT him after jumping in front of them.
I think Darryl is still alive. Maybe the government is still holding him as bait for Marcus or he might still be out in the city, but I don't think he is dead.
@ Klarissa I think that Marcus should tell his parrents what actually happened to him. He is 17 and he is still under the controll of his parrents, and if he doesn't there is a possibility they might find out anyway.
Honestly, I am infuriated. I am infuriated because I am sure that our government now does this. To pick children, WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE, it makes my blood boil. When Mr. AP law teacher who came in the other day, started talking about the infringement on our rights because of security, it freaked me out, and this book freaks me out even more.
@Klarissa- I do not think Marcus should tell his parents. This is his battle to fight. I know it sounds intense, but I think that he shouldn't tell his parents for that reason. What would they do? They would get sucked in, and there's nothing they can do. There's nothing anyone could do at this point in time.
I really don't think this is his own battle. I think it will become everyone's battle in a matter of time! If the DHS is so stern about one 17 year old kid- I would think there are a lot more people they would want to go after!
@ inner circle Well, perhaps the people who support Osamah Benladin wouldn't care if it happened to us! It doesn't matter who the person is. Would you really wish pain and suffering on any human being?
It's important to explain technology in this book because it takes so large of a role. The first 2 chapters of the book were spent extensively describing all the technology at the school and Marcus' hands.
@ Heidi--- Maybe Doctorow describes technology in this way because he feels this generation can connect to it, but also because he wants to show the audience that in today's society, the government can still control everything. 1984 can still occur with today's technological advances.
@Class- Do you think we are not infuriated because we know it's not real? I mean, it COULD be real, but from what information we have been fed our entire lives, it is not real. That's why I'm not mad, because my intuition and knowledge I have acquired tells me this does not happen. I think the point of this book is to make you think that this COULD happen, and I'm sure later on I will realize that this may be more realistic than I think.
I'm not sure what the government has to gain, but something made me think that we may later see that this was part of a big government conspiracy, because that's how all the other books e have read have gone, there is some sort of government conspiracy.
@ Heidi I have to agree with you. It wasn't right for them to pick him up off the street and take him away with no evidence or probable cause. It's true that there is infringement of our rights, and it is a very scary thought
I think one reason that we don't react as angry is because we block it out. With 1984, we could accept what happened because there isn't any connection to that ever happeninig to us. But Little Brother affects a teenager like us. It hits closer to home and I think our minds naturally try to block this out. Even if we think that we can handle it, I don't think our minds could handle the full impact of what we're reading.
@Gabe Its up in the air what happened to Darryl. For all we know Darryl may still be on the street where he got stabbed. For all we know Darryl maybe dead or under arrest. We just don’t know and we don’t have enough information to speculate. He could be anywhere in the Bat area.
That's very true but I have a feeling he is not with the DHS I don't think they would keep a person with their life slowly leaving. They would have just dumped him off somewhere.
@Class I sense some tension. We are all angry, (super angry? Super angry.)But honestly, HONESTLY, why Marcus!? That's why *I'm* angry!!! They had NO REASON to suspect Marcus. That's why we can't relate this to Osama Bin Laden!!! America KNEW he was a bad dude, so they... Well you all know. But no one *knows* is Marcus is BAD or GOOD. That's why I'm mad. Not that they are doing all this, but because they are doing this without any evidence.
@Class- To me, I find this torture topic just like the killing of Osama Bin Laden. When Bin Laden was killed, a lot of people were happy. They stormed the streets and cheered and stuff. But I was so conflicted. Should I cheer for a human beings DEATH? I know that he did so many awful things, but to me, I still value human life. You guys are going to think me crazy. I was so conflicted. The torture thing to me is the same way. The government actually carried out water boarding on suspected terrorists. But I'm conflicted on that, too. Should they torture someone because they are suspected of killing people? Torture is awful, no matter who it is to. What do you guys think?
You know, everyone is talking about how terrible it is what's happening to Marcus and it is, I 'm not saying it isn't; but isn't this the same thing we did to Japanese Americans when we put them in internment camps during WW2? The public backed the government in this decision, so. . .?
@Hailey--What do you mean it can't happen? Anything can happen. Of course there could be a terrorist attack and the government can suspect a 17 year old boy and they torture to get information out of him. What if after 9/11 they did the exact same thing to someone?
under no circumstance is torture ever justified or "okay". Interrogation is enough, why does there have to be pain? What they did to Marcus was reflect their own fear of the terrorist attack onto his torture.
@Ellen- I definitely agree. Why was he tortured so much more than his friends?? More importantly, why was he even picked up as a suspect in the first place?? This makes no sense to me. I feel like there is something THEY know, or think they know, that WE don't know and MARCUS doesn't know.
@ Hailey--- It definitely is stereotypical of Marcus to expect the terrorists to be from the Middle East, but he has only experienced one terrorist attack, 9/11,so it is all he knows.
This is the whole idea of Little Brother. It's a young adult novel designed to make kids of today keep this from happening. The anger about Marcus' torture is exactly what Cory Doctorow wants.
@Colleen- The Constitution was set up for that exact reason. To make sure stuff like that--torturing kids--doesn't happen. When has anyone told you that in America, it's okay to torture people who AREN'T under arrest, and AREN'T convicted of anything and are just SUSPECTED? No one has told me that. In that way, I know that it would not be accepted in society or America.
As horrible as the torturing thing was that wasn't the worst thing homeland security did. The worst part was that they assumed Marcus was a terrorist because he hada a lot of passwords. They had no reason to pick him up. I know Marcuse was white but this is similiar to racial profiling. Authority figure deciding they are a criminal whether it was the color of your skin or if you were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Nothing in this world that humans do in the shadow of fear is logical. We incarcerated Japanese in internment camps because we were scared, they tortured Marcus because they were scared. It doesn't make sense, not at all, but that's how humans function. They run on pure instinct, and not until 1988 do they apologize (after the internment camps started in 1942) and use their reasoning skills.
@ Kathryn C. I have to agree. It was wrong of the goverment to do what they did to Marcus, but its not like it hasn't happened before. The Japnese internment camps, the war against terrorism, it's all for our "safety" and most of the population just goes along with it. So really, what is the difference between now and in the book?
I don't think the goverment has the right to invade Marcus' privacy in such a way, and then torture him! How is this supposed to protect us! I would think it would be the opposite!!!
@Class- I think that we are forgetting that they didn't really take him to be tortured because of the whole terrorist attack thing. They were just using that as an excuse to interrogate him. They were really trying to show him how powerful- I don't think they were used to being said no to, so they tortured him to show him that they could. (At least, I think that's what Marcus was trying to say right after he got out of jail).
@Joe- I don't think that they assumed he was a terrorist because of his passwords. I don't really quite know why they did assume him, but I'm not sure it was because of his passwords. I think maybe they suspected he had something to hide because he didn't GIVE his password, but I'm not sure if they suspected him at first because he had so many.
Either way, the government doesn't gain anything from torturing anybody they suspect. It doesn't matter who you are or what you are suspected of, we all are still human.
@class I agree with Julia. If they listens to every prediction that someone makes, then we would be wasting our time when we could really be focusing on more important affairs.
@Class Do you think that our government does anything close to this kind of system of questioning? This is very severe for Americans to think of happening in our society, but I wouldn't put it past our government to do something less severe than this.
@ Class--- It is wrong for the DHS to demand his password, but if I were in Marcus's shoes, I would give it right away. I agree that it is completely wrong and unconstitutional for my private information to be taken from me, but I would care more about getting home than protecting my private information.
@Hailey Yeah it is really difficult to say. Because say they waterboard 100 people. Chances are, none of them are actually terrorists. But what if one of them is? That one person- that ONE PERSON- is bad. Bad bad bad. But those other 99 people aren't. It's so hard to know who is actually bad and who isn't. And the government feels it's better to be "safe-than-sorry". So they send out a bunch of trigger-happy, insane, psycho, "JUST WATERBOARD THEM ALL!", DHS agents to arrest anyone who is suspicious. But where does that end!? Okay, so al-Qaeda bombs America. That automatically means that everyone in a TURBAN is a terrorist!? No. Not at all. But the government knows that whoever is a terrorist is probably going to have a turban on, therefore all people with turbans=terrorists. Great America. Awesome formula there.
@Class - I think it was interesting that not only did they take his passwords, they even bugged his computer. I think it's fair that if he can't be trusted, they should be able to check his phone (IF THEY ARE HOMELAND SECURITY OR SOMEONE LIKE THE FBI), but is it fair to bug his computer without telling him, if he's innocent enough to be let go?
What you aren't seeing is that is protects the majority of people as soon as they catch the terrorists. The government disregards rights to fix the terrorist issue as soon as possible.
@Klarissa- I am fairly certain they invaded Osama bin Laden's privacy before they killed him. Sure, they found evidence. Does that mean that invading his privacy was okay?
@Hailey--I guess I kind of see what you are saying, but at the same time a book doesn't have to be realistic to irritate you. 1984 wasn't realistic to me, but it still made me mad.
@ Klarissa I know exactly what you mean. If we could be picked up off the street and tortured with no evidence, that isn't exactly protecting us. It all seems backwards to me.
@class Why didn't Marcus remove the bug he found in his computer? If it were me, I woudn't want to leave that in there. I'd want my life back, and mine alone.
@Ellen- Exactly. And I have to say, sometimes I am uncomfortable around people with turbans, because I have grown up in a society where that is a sign to be cautious because of 9/11. I try not to be so cautious and realize they are probably just regular people. But that's a PROBABLY. What if they aren't? Life is about taking risks, but....It's so hard for me to decide what to think.
I was absent for the fish bowl but here is my response... This entire liveblog made me so mad. There were people saying that this kind of torture doesn't happen today because the Constitution says so. That doesn't say anything. The Constitution is a piece of paper written hundreds of years ago. It's easy for the government to find loop holes and even to go against those rights. All of this can easily happen and it made me so mad to read. The torture Marcus endured was unfair (though his interogation was a little justified) I think Cory Doctorow was really trying to show what does and can happen. In 1984, George Orwell predicted this extreme society that had a completely oppressive government. However, 1984 took place in an unreal setting. It was so different from the way we live today, that it didn't seem possible. Doctorow, however, managed to predict the same kind of oppression but in today's society. That's what scared me and angered me the most. I saw that some of the oppressive things in 1984 that I doubted could ever happen to me could actually happen! The pain Marcus was put through just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time made me realize how corrupt our government is and could be. I think Doctorow tried to make Little Brother similar to 1984 but in a more realistic setting (and it worked). While reading the blog, it seemed like a lot of my fellow students didn't think that this book was realistic, but it totally is. Anything can happen in a society where our government can easily ignore our Constitution given rights.
@class
ReplyDeleteHow would you compare the torturing in Little Brother and 1984?
What do you guys think of Darryl? Do you think he'll come back or will he be like Syme who only appeared in one or two chapters and then disappeared? The cover of the book has 3 kids on it. Does this imply something?
ReplyDeleteI don't think it could possibly be Alcatraz because it is not even in use any more. I think that if the DHS was torturing people it would not be at a tourist attraction.
ReplyDeleteHow realistic do you think that America's security in this book is?
ReplyDeleteI think that based on the aftermath of 9/11, this is a very realistic example of America's security after a terrorist attack.
DeleteI really hope that this ISN'T realistic. I think that it possibly could happen, but I really hope it never would. I think that the way they questioned him really happens in real life, but not the way they tortured him.
Delete@class - Would Marcus and his friends have been picked up the Department of Homeland Security if he hadn't stepped out into the middle of the street and yelled at the car? Why didn't he look to see if it was a police car or ambulance first?
ReplyDelete@Casey
ReplyDeleteI think that marcus is kindof a whimp. In 1984 Winston faces true torture that shows him great pain, Marcus just doesnt eat for 2 days and had a sore sholder.
@Class
ReplyDeleteWhat do you guys think about the way the government treated Marcus? Was that fair?
@Casey
ReplyDeleteThe torturing in Little Brother seems to be less as intense as in 1984. However, both O'Brien and The Department of Homeland Security had the same effect on Marcus and Winston. Both felt exposed and like they had their identity taken away almost. But then, Winston had a different torture because he has different weaknesses than Marcus.
I agree with the difference between the tourturing between the 2 books. Maybe it's because it's a more humane society, meaning we're able to relate to the setting and the characters more than we were able to in 1984.
Delete@Casey
ReplyDeleteThe torturing in 1984 is a lot more to do with threts, and the normal people didn't really have technology. Compaired to Little Brother where the kids are more technologicly advanced than the adults. Also the tortureing in 1984 was much more seviere than it is in Little Brother.
Do you think homeland security was so hard on Marcus because he didn't give them the phone password the first night or because of a different reason?
ReplyDeleteI think the government just needed someone to blame and he was an easy target because he is young and he gave them an excuse to suspect him by not giving the passwords.
DeleteI think because of a different reason. I think that they know something else about him that maybe he doesn't know or they think he is the main suspect because of what he has done with technology.
Delete@ Kathryn
ReplyDeleteI deffinitely think that Darryl won't be a main character in the story. But the fact that he's such a mystery makes me think that he will come back into the fold at some point.
@Taylor
ReplyDeleteRemember though that Marcus' privacy was invaded! I think I would be pretty hacked off too, if that were me.
@Rick
ReplyDeleteEvery other car that passed them was a police car or ambulance, and none of them stopped. He had to do something to take care of his friend and he just assumed that the next car to come along would be an ambulence. He couldn't have been able to tell the difference from the front.
@ Taylor B
ReplyDeleteI think that Marcus is pretty strong. He stood up to the authorities. He was stubborn and refused to tell them his passwords for many days. Marcus explained to the people interrogating him that their actions were unconstitutional.
@Casey
ReplyDeleteIn 1984, there was more physical torture, but in Little Brother, they promised Marcus that he would be allowed some luxury if he shared the information. I think that in both books, both Winston and Marcus were both mentally tortured, but Marcus' torture is trivial compared to Winston's.
What did you guys think about what Marcus does at school and how much he knows about technology? Does that stand out to anyone else?
ReplyDeleteI think that DEFINITELY stands out. I don't think he would have included it in the book if it didn't. I think that it will play some part in the way he proves his innocence or finds the terrorists or something...
Delete@inner circ;e
ReplyDeleteI think they let Marcus go because he's a suspect to them. They want to see what he'll do with his new freedom.
@Rick I think that if you, or any of us, were in that situation, we would have all yelled at anybody we could find too. I mean, a massive bomb has just gone off, his best friend is bleeding out on the sidewalk, and he is scared. At that point, I think he was just looking for *anyone* to help him. If I was in that situation, I wouldn't wait for a police car or ambulance. I would ask anybody I could find for help, and that's what Marcus did.
ReplyDeleteThat's very true, everything has happening very fast. So he just reacted. But would he still have been picked up if he hadn't jumped out in front of the car?
DeleteHonestly, I don't know. On one hand, he is outside when no one else is. On the other hand, he wouldn't be drawing attention to himself like he did when he jumped in front of the car.
Delete@ Ellen
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure. I think that the security system today is willing to be a little more harsh than what we've been lead to beleive. They must be worried about terrorists, but the fact that they tortured kids has got to be extremely exagerated.
When Marcus get's home his parents inform him that the BART was bombed also after they left. I think its possible that because Darryl was hurt they just left him there instead and he would have died in that second bomb.
ReplyDelete@Joe - I think that was part of the reason they were hard on him, but also just the fact that he has so many passwords. Most people's phones only have one simple code to open the phone; he had it coming because of all the downloads he had done. They probably had good reason to think that because of all his pass codes, he probably could be hiding secret messages
ReplyDelete@Joe
ReplyDeleteI think the phone password is exactly why they were so hard on him.
@Klarissa
ReplyDeleteTrue. However, he barely faced anything all that gruesome. There are people who live in africa that their every day lives are Marcuses torture, how is it that Winston stays strong and withstands REAL torture, but they take away Marcuses food for a few days and he breaks down.
@Class Does anyone see similarities between the interrogation of Marcus and Winston being tortured? Marcus did say that he would’ve confessed to killing Abe Lincoln. Winston demonstrated the same kind of submission in 1984.
ReplyDelete@ Michael
DeleteYes, there do seem to be similarities in the feeling of the two characters. I think that anyone in that situation would feel like that, especially if they understand the possible results and consequences.
@ class
ReplyDeleteWhat do you guys think about Marcus having to sign the papers saying that he submitted to questioning under his own free will? It sounds horrible! I can't beleive that this hasn't been exposed yet.
The people made him sign so that he felt totally and completely vulnerable. This would give them better control over him. It wasn't fair but they need to protect themselves in case he decides to go tell people what happened to him.
Delete@Arman
ReplyDeleteMarcus is so good with computers because he wants to make himself feel safer. He is able to lock down and encrypt anything he does so that it is the only safe place he ends up having. That is why he spends so much time getting around his SchoolBook so he can have his own freedom.
@Gabe Fair? Never. I don't think that we can talk about the government in terms of "fair" and "unfair". The entire idea of government is "unfair". However, I do think that what they were doing to Marcus and his friends was wrong. They picked him up and didn't give him any rights or a trial or anything that a normal suspect gets. The DHS did not abide by the old American adage "innocent until proven guilty".
ReplyDelete@Taylor
ReplyDeleteWell he is only seventeen. I would kind of be freaking out too.
@class
ReplyDeleteOut of curiosity, how did the Department of Homeland Security know that there were 10 bombs I think used to blow up the Bay Bridge if it exploded? It's probably of no importance, but it's still interesting.
@ Class--- What do you think about Marcus's school? Why do they watch their students so much? It seems like Marcus has to find ways to adjust the technology so that he can keep his privacy.
ReplyDelete@Class- Considering that Marcus wouldn't have felt so strongly against the government if they hadn't taken him and treated him so badly, do you think the government and the DHS are kicking themselves right now?
ReplyDelete@Micheal
ReplyDeleteThis seems to be the similarity Cory Doctorow is going for. He wants to show that the idea of 1984 still applies today, and the government will get what they want.
@Michael--I definitely agree with you. I found myself making those exact connections while reading this section of the book. It is crazy that Winston was beaten and tortured severely, while Marcus was only slightly tortured, but they still had the same intentions on telling them anything they wanted.
ReplyDelete@Inner Circle The Patriot Act allows the government to do basically anything if they think you are a potential terrorist. They can wire tap, phone tap, spy, and do basically anything as long as you are thought to be a potential terrorist. The safety of the state is put over your rights.
ReplyDeleteYa your rights are gone if you have any possible chances of terrorism or acts of violence against the U.S.
DeleteThey can even interrogate us against our will.
Delete@ inner circle
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Homeland Security will be able to find out exactly how smart he is and how well he hacks things?
Now that they have his password, they probably already do know. If they don't, they probably soon will; due to Marcus wanting revenge.
Delete@Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteThere are different kinds of torture. He was tortured in a mental state. The DHS wanted to break him mentally instead of physically because they didn't need him to be physically weaker they just wanted to get inside his head so he would forever be scared and wouldn't end up acting out again.
Sometimes that kind of torture is more painful than the physical type, and it would have a better effect on him.
DeleteI think torture to the brain is much more effective then physical torture. It's like being scarred, mentally.Cuts and burns heal, when images and being mentally corrupted is
Delete@ Klarissa
ReplyDeleteAlthough the goverment had no right to treat Marcus the way they did, his torment wasn't all that bad. It was for "security" so maybe they thought it was right.
@Arman
ReplyDeleteI think that what Marcus is doing at school is smart, but I think it's wrong and is part of the reason why he has gotten himself into so much trouble already.
I am surprised how hesitant Marcus was to give the passwords away. If I was in that situation Im would give them whatever they wanted. Who cares about privacy? I would be so scared I would do whatever they want and give up my privacy in a heart beat.
ReplyDelete@Casey, Torturing kids is extremely exaggerated? Is it, though? I mean, if the government were to suspect that you, or I, or any of us, were to have something that could create a problem for them, they wouldn't compromise security simply because we are "kids". That's why kids aren't exempt from pat-downs at the airport. Because we are just as much of a threat as anyone else.
ReplyDelete@Joe
ReplyDeleteI think that Homeland Security still would have done the same thing because he is being treated as a potential terrorist, Home Land Security did their job.
@ Kathryn C.--- It is very interesting that the Department of Homeland Security knew that information about the attack. It seems very unlikely that they would have done anything to cause the attack, but it is still interesting.
ReplyDelete@Michael
ReplyDeleteI think that they are sort of the same, but on different levels. Marcus is a teenager whereas Winston is an older man. I think that the tolerance level would be different because of age. Marcus also has something to hope for such as family, but Winston doesn't have anything to fight for.
@ Emma
ReplyDeleteI don't think they reallize exactly what they've gotten themselves into. They might not realize how smart he is and what he's capable of.
Marcus is designed by the author to be good at hacking and using technology, but the government is good also.
Delete@ Maggie M.
ReplyDeleteWe are on camera in our school all of the time, so it's not that different. I think it's right that Marcus breaks the rules enforced upon them because they are so extreme. The gait-recognition cameras are hysterical though, and it seems like the exact same stupid choice a school would make today.
But at school, we are only watched if they need to watch someone specific or review tapes to see if something happened. At least in schools, I don't think that the security is this tight. In Marcus' school, I think they take security to a more extreme.
Delete@Casey- I agree, it's horrible, but having him sign the papers is probably the only thing that they could do. It is awful and is a total mind game, but they couldn't let it get out that they are doing all this stuff to people- illegally. It is definitely a mind game. They are showing him just how much power they have over him.
ReplyDelete@Elly
ReplyDeleteI don't think the accronymns are Newspeak because Newspeak was created by the Government. These were/ are used by the main character, a kid.
@Lauren
ReplyDeleteNo, I disagree. I think they had no right to interogate him the way they did. I think he should have had the right to a trial first. Just because they are the DHS doesn't mean that they have that kind of power over us. I think they were way too harsh on him even before he resisted them.
If you think about it, if they had taken Marcus to a court/trial would it have been any fairer. Terrorism is a serious offense and I don't think even the court would have agreed with him unless he had a really, really convincing argument.
DeleteTrue, but do they have the right to treat him so rudely! Come on!
Delete@ Class
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone feel like there may be a conspiracy of a sort by the government like they themselves dropping the bombs or something along those lines?
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Delete@Gabe
ReplyDeleteIf that is all it takes to break Marcus's mind he is a very week man. I suspect that he will be seeking revenge, he has to be stroner then he currently seems.
@Maggie
ReplyDeleteThe security at the school is to show how little privacy Marcus has. There was already high security before the bombing, and I'm sure it will get much worse.
@Michael- I do see the similarities in 1984 and this book and the way they are tortured, but I also see differences. In 1984, Winston had an immediate consequence if he answered wrong--he got electrocuted. But in this book, Marcus doesn't get immediate consequences, and I feel like that is why he has more strength to resist and why he resisted giving them the password to his phone for so long. I'm not sure Winston would have been able to do that. If Marcus had been told 2+2=5, I think he would have denied that for as long as he could, which would have been longer than Winston did.
ReplyDelete@Class
ReplyDeleteI think the reason they targeted Marcus was his resistance. They noticed that he would stand for his rights so they targeted him. They probably could have been able to unlock his phone on their own, but they wanteed to break him and control him.
@ inner circle
ReplyDeleteI think this book is kind of like a revenge book for 1984. In 1984, the rebellion never happened, but I think in Little Brother something big is going to go down. Do you think that Cory Doctorow wrote this because he was unsatisfied with the ending of 1984? (Besides the fact that he wanted to write an awesome book.)
@Class
ReplyDeleteDo you think that it is wise for Marcus to not tell his parents about what really happened to him? He is still 17, so he is technically still under his parents quarentine.
Not quarentine. I should say control.
Delete@Class- Why do you think that the DHS targeted Marcus? He willingly jumped in front of their van right after a bridge blew up. That means he obviously didn't do it. That would be like a thief leaping out in front of a police car right after he knocked over a casino. No one would do that! So why did the DHS choose him?
ReplyDelete@Taylor B
ReplyDeleteYes they were doing there job, but they singled Marcus out. When he shared his experience with Jolu and Vaness he was treared much worse than they were.
@Joe- I think that a lot of us would be willing to give passwords away if we thought it would stop us from getting hurt. I think that Cory Doctrow, as an author, couldn't make Marcus just like us, though, because he is supposed to be a hero, of sorts. In real life, I probably would give away the passwords in a second. But I don't want to read about someone who would. Marcus is a hero.
ReplyDelete@ Joe
ReplyDeleteThat is true, but really Marcus thought that he had a right that would protect him against an invasion of his privacy. He was just doing what he thought the Constitution and Bill of Rights give us.
@Class- On page 43, Marcus talks about what he thinks terrorist looks like and how he doesn't look anything like that. He says that they are Arabic people with turbans and beards....what does that symbolize about our society? I personally feel like we stereotype people who look like they are from the Middle East because of 9/11. Do you think that is an okay reaction after 9/11?
ReplyDelete@Arman I don’t think the government dropped the bombs on themselves. What does the government have to gain by bombing a major commercial bridge? There is nothing to gain there but a destroyed bridge and a lot displaced people.
ReplyDelete@ Klarissa
ReplyDeleteI have to agree, they didn't have a right to interogate him that way. Although, this does happen now too. People who are suspected of terrorism lose all their rights when they are just a suspect. In their society, what Marcus was doing might have been seen more as an act of terror than it is in ours.
So anyone could be a suspect!
Delete@Taylor
ReplyDeleteIt broke him because the only freedom he ends up having is through his electronics. All of his passwords and encryptions are the only way that he feels like he had freedom because all of the normal internet is cesored.
@ Class
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Doctorow extensively describes technology in the book? Is it because he thinks it cool and interesting to us (Where's the sarcastic font?) or because he wants us to understand the kid and the society?
@Arman
ReplyDeleteThe class has touched on the subject throughout our different books, but we've never actually confirmed it in any of them. If I had to guess, I would say that there isn't a conspiracy.
1984 was scary, but it seemed much more far-fetched than this book. The government in Little Brother seems eerily similar to our government today. Maybe Doctorow wrote this book to show readers that even though the year 1984 has passed, the powerful government Orwell described could still come to exist.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if Mr. Meyers is just getting to me or not, but it really intimidates me and scares me that this happened. I guess I can see why they did this, but I can't see how this is being covered up.
ReplyDelete@Ellen- I feel like they know more about Marcus than he knows about himself. I also don't understand why they would pick him up and SUSPECT him after jumping in front of them.
ReplyDelete@Class
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of explosion do you think it was that destroyed the bridge? Was it just a normal explosive (C4?) or was the bomb nuclear?
@Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think actually happened to Darryl?
I think Darryl is still alive. Maybe the government is still holding him as bait for Marcus or he might still be out in the city, but I don't think he is dead.
DeleteDon't you think it's easily possible that because Derryl was hurt they left him there and he just died in the second bomb?
Delete@ Klarissa
ReplyDeleteI think that Marcus should tell his parrents what actually happened to him. He is 17 and he is still under the controll of his parrents, and if he doesn't there is a possibility they might find out anyway.
@ Class
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I am infuriated. I am infuriated because I am sure that our government now does this. To pick children, WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE, it makes my blood boil. When Mr. AP law teacher who came in the other day, started talking about the infringement on our rights because of security, it freaked me out, and this book freaks me out even more.
@Klarissa- I do not think Marcus should tell his parents. This is his battle to fight. I know it sounds intense, but I think that he shouldn't tell his parents for that reason. What would they do? They would get sucked in, and there's nothing they can do. There's nothing anyone could do at this point in time.
ReplyDeleteI really don't think this is his own battle. I think it will become everyone's battle in a matter of time! If the DHS is so stern about one 17 year old kid- I would think there are a lot more people they would want to go after!
Delete@Ellen
ReplyDeleteI think that they were so caught up in the situation that they didn't think logically. Also, I think that they may have wanted a scapegoat.
@ inner circle
ReplyDeleteWell, perhaps the people who support Osamah Benladin wouldn't care if it happened to us! It doesn't matter who the person is. Would you really wish pain and suffering on any human being?
@Heidi
ReplyDeleteIt's important to explain technology in this book because it takes so large of a role. The first 2 chapters of the book were spent extensively describing all the technology at the school and Marcus' hands.
@ Heidi--- Maybe Doctorow describes technology in this way because he feels this generation can connect to it, but also because he wants to show the audience that in today's society, the government can still control everything. 1984 can still occur with today's technological advances.
ReplyDelete@Class- Do you think we are not infuriated because we know it's not real? I mean, it COULD be real, but from what information we have been fed our entire lives, it is not real. That's why I'm not mad, because my intuition and knowledge I have acquired tells me this does not happen. I think the point of this book is to make you think that this COULD happen, and I'm sure later on I will realize that this may be more realistic than I think.
ReplyDelete@ Michael
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what the government has to gain, but something made me think that we may later see that this was part of a big government conspiracy, because that's how all the other books e have read have gone, there is some sort of government conspiracy.
@ Heidi
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you. It wasn't right for them to pick him up off the street and take him away with no evidence or probable cause. It's true that there is infringement of our rights, and it is a very scary thought
I think one reason that we don't react as angry is because we block it out. With 1984, we could accept what happened because there isn't any connection to that ever happeninig to us. But Little Brother affects a teenager like us. It hits closer to home and I think our minds naturally try to block this out. Even if we think that we can handle it, I don't think our minds could handle the full impact of what we're reading.
ReplyDelete@Gabe Its up in the air what happened to Darryl. For all we know Darryl may still be on the street where he got stabbed. For all we know Darryl maybe dead or under arrest. We just don’t know and we don’t have enough information to speculate. He could be anywhere in the Bat area.
ReplyDeleteThat's very true but I have a feeling he is not with the DHS I don't think they would keep a person with their life slowly leaving. They would have just dumped him off somewhere.
Delete@Class I sense some tension. We are all angry, (super angry? Super angry.)But honestly, HONESTLY, why Marcus!? That's why *I'm* angry!!! They had NO REASON to suspect Marcus. That's why we can't relate this to Osama Bin Laden!!! America KNEW he was a bad dude, so they... Well you all know. But no one *knows* is Marcus is BAD or GOOD. That's why I'm mad. Not that they are doing all this, but because they are doing this without any evidence.
ReplyDelete@Class- To me, I find this torture topic just like the killing of Osama Bin Laden. When Bin Laden was killed, a lot of people were happy. They stormed the streets and cheered and stuff. But I was so conflicted. Should I cheer for a human beings DEATH? I know that he did so many awful things, but to me, I still value human life. You guys are going to think me crazy. I was so conflicted. The torture thing to me is the same way. The government actually carried out water boarding on suspected terrorists. But I'm conflicted on that, too. Should they torture someone because they are suspected of killing people? Torture is awful, no matter who it is to. What do you guys think?
ReplyDeleteYou know, everyone is talking about how terrible it is what's happening to Marcus and it is, I 'm not saying it isn't; but isn't this the same thing we did to Japanese Americans when we put them in internment camps during WW2? The public backed the government in this decision, so. . .?
ReplyDelete@Hailey--What do you mean it can't happen? Anything can happen. Of course there could be a terrorist attack and the government can suspect a 17 year old boy and they torture to get information out of him. What if after 9/11 they did the exact same thing to someone?
ReplyDelete@ Inner circle
ReplyDeleteunder no circumstance is torture ever justified or "okay". Interrogation is enough, why does there have to be pain? What they did to Marcus was reflect their own fear of the terrorist attack onto his torture.
@Ellen- I definitely agree. Why was he tortured so much more than his friends?? More importantly, why was he even picked up as a suspect in the first place?? This makes no sense to me. I feel like there is something THEY know, or think they know, that WE don't know and MARCUS doesn't know.
ReplyDelete@ Hailey--- It definitely is stereotypical of Marcus to expect the terrorists to be from the Middle East, but he has only experienced one terrorist attack, 9/11,so it is all he knows.
ReplyDelete@Ellen
ReplyDeleteThis is the whole idea of Little Brother. It's a young adult novel designed to make kids of today keep this from happening. The anger about Marcus' torture is exactly what Cory Doctorow wants.
@Colleen- The Constitution was set up for that exact reason. To make sure stuff like that--torturing kids--doesn't happen. When has anyone told you that in America, it's okay to torture people who AREN'T under arrest, and AREN'T convicted of anything and are just SUSPECTED? No one has told me that. In that way, I know that it would not be accepted in society or America.
ReplyDeleteAs horrible as the torturing thing was that wasn't the worst thing homeland security did. The worst part was that they assumed Marcus was a terrorist because he hada a lot of passwords. They had no reason to pick him up. I know Marcuse was white but this is similiar to racial profiling. Authority figure deciding they are a criminal whether it was the color of your skin or if you were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
ReplyDelete@ Kathryn
ReplyDeleteNothing in this world that humans do in the shadow of fear is logical. We incarcerated Japanese in internment camps because we were scared, they tortured Marcus because they were scared. It doesn't make sense, not at all, but that's how humans function. They run on pure instinct, and not until 1988 do they apologize (after the internment camps started in 1942) and use their reasoning skills.
@ Kathryn C.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree. It was wrong of the goverment to do what they did to Marcus, but its not like it hasn't happened before. The Japnese internment camps, the war against terrorism, it's all for our "safety" and most of the population just goes along with it. So really, what is the difference between now and in the book?
I don't think the goverment has the right to invade Marcus' privacy in such a way, and then torture him! How is this supposed to protect us! I would think it would be the opposite!!!
ReplyDelete@Class- I think that we are forgetting that they didn't really take him to be tortured because of the whole terrorist attack thing. They were just using that as an excuse to interrogate him. They were really trying to show him how powerful- I don't think they were used to being said no to, so they tortured him to show him that they could. (At least, I think that's what Marcus was trying to say right after he got out of jail).
ReplyDelete@Joe- I don't think that they assumed he was a terrorist because of his passwords. I don't really quite know why they did assume him, but I'm not sure it was because of his passwords. I think maybe they suspected he had something to hide because he didn't GIVE his password, but I'm not sure if they suspected him at first because he had so many.
ReplyDeleteEither way, the government doesn't gain anything from torturing anybody they suspect. It doesn't matter who you are or what you are suspected of, we all are still human.
ReplyDelete@class
ReplyDeleteI agree with Julia. If they listens to every prediction that someone makes, then we would be wasting our time when we could really be focusing on more important affairs.
@Class
ReplyDeleteDo you think that our government does anything close to this kind of system of questioning? This is very severe for Americans to think of happening in our society, but I wouldn't put it past our government to do something less severe than this.
@ Class--- It is wrong for the DHS to demand his password, but if I were in Marcus's shoes, I would give it right away. I agree that it is completely wrong and unconstitutional for my private information to be taken from me, but I would care more about getting home than protecting my private information.
ReplyDelete@Heidi
ReplyDeleteExactly. It took the U.S. 46 years to realize what they did to the Japanese people. How could the gvmnt. forget so fast?
@Emma- You make a good point. Maybe that's why his friends weren't tortured as much as him. They didn't say no as often or resist them as much.
ReplyDelete@Hailey Yeah it is really difficult to say. Because say they waterboard 100 people. Chances are, none of them are actually terrorists. But what if one of them is? That one person- that ONE PERSON- is bad. Bad bad bad. But those other 99 people aren't. It's so hard to know who is actually bad and who isn't. And the government feels it's better to be "safe-than-sorry". So they send out a bunch of trigger-happy, insane, psycho, "JUST WATERBOARD THEM ALL!", DHS agents to arrest anyone who is suspicious. But where does that end!? Okay, so al-Qaeda bombs America. That automatically means that everyone in a TURBAN is a terrorist!? No. Not at all. But the government knows that whoever is a terrorist is probably going to have a turban on, therefore all people with turbans=terrorists. Great America. Awesome formula there.
ReplyDeletelast thoughts--
ReplyDelete@Class - I think it was interesting that not only did they take his passwords, they even bugged his computer. I think it's fair that if he can't be trusted, they should be able to check his phone (IF THEY ARE HOMELAND SECURITY OR SOMEONE LIKE THE FBI), but is it fair to bug his computer without telling him, if he's innocent enough to be let go?
ReplyDelete@Klarissa
ReplyDeleteWhat you aren't seeing is that is protects the majority of people as soon as they catch the terrorists. The government disregards rights to fix the terrorist issue as soon as possible.
@Klarissa- I am fairly certain they invaded Osama bin Laden's privacy before they killed him. Sure, they found evidence. Does that mean that invading his privacy was okay?
ReplyDelete@Hailey--I guess I kind of see what you are saying, but at the same time a book doesn't have to be realistic to irritate you. 1984 wasn't realistic to me, but it still made me mad.
ReplyDelete@ Klarissa
ReplyDeleteI know exactly what you mean. If we could be picked up off the street and tortured with no evidence, that isn't exactly protecting us. It all seems backwards to me.
@class
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't Marcus remove the bug he found in his computer? If it were me, I woudn't want to leave that in there. I'd want my life back, and mine alone.
@Ellen- Exactly. And I have to say, sometimes I am uncomfortable around people with turbans, because I have grown up in a society where that is a sign to be cautious because of 9/11. I try not to be so cautious and realize they are probably just regular people. But that's a PROBABLY. What if they aren't? Life is about taking risks, but....It's so hard for me to decide what to think.
ReplyDelete@ Class
ReplyDeleteI am against torture, know that, but we always say it's "unconstitutional", is there anything in the constitution that mentions torture?
I was absent for the fish bowl but here is my response...
ReplyDeleteThis entire liveblog made me so mad. There were people saying that this kind of torture doesn't happen today because the Constitution says so. That doesn't say anything. The Constitution is a piece of paper written hundreds of years ago. It's easy for the government to find loop holes and even to go against those rights. All of this can easily happen and it made me so mad to read. The torture Marcus endured was unfair (though his interogation was a little justified) I think Cory Doctorow was really trying to show what does and can happen. In 1984, George Orwell predicted this extreme society that had a completely oppressive government. However, 1984 took place in an unreal setting. It was so different from the way we live today, that it didn't seem possible. Doctorow, however, managed to predict the same kind of oppression but in today's society. That's what scared me and angered me the most. I saw that some of the oppressive things in 1984 that I doubted could ever happen to me could actually happen! The pain Marcus was put through just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time made me realize how corrupt our government is and could be. I think Doctorow tried to make Little Brother similar to 1984 but in a more realistic setting (and it worked). While reading the blog, it seemed like a lot of my fellow students didn't think that this book was realistic, but it totally is. Anything can happen in a society where our government can easily ignore our Constitution given rights.