@Class Why do you think the author chose to repeat part of Winston's book for the reader? Didn't he know it would bore them? Maybe there are some deeper meanings to the reading than it appears.
@ Rachel I think that there might have been a deeper meaning to the part Winston read, but also maybe Orwell wrote it that way to reinstate the fact that Winston already knew what the book said, and it was a daily fact of life to him.
Rachel- I think the author repeated the book to get across to the reader his thoughts. Orwell has a very journalistic style of writing and I think he thought that he wanted to spell out the themes of everything for readers. He wanted to make the lessons he wants to get across very obvious and not open to interpretation.
Taylor O She might not care as much because she doesn't deal with the past and deleting the past like Winston does. He is constantly making lies so it makes him curious what the truth is, but Julia doesn't get involved with the past.
@Taylor O. I think that Julia doesn't care about the past because of her age. I think that her generation is the one that is too young to think about life before the revolution because they were too young to remember it. -Trevor
@Taylor Julia grew up in the middle of the madness, and so her views are tainted even though she doesn't like the party. It is probably a subconscious thing that was implanted in her for the amount of party work she puts in.
@Paige I do think that it will be hard for the younger generations to continue on the resistance because they do not remember life before are so it might be hard for them.
Rachel- I agree, I think the author repeated it because it could give a deeper meaning of what he wrote. Or it could be that thats what e truly believed so he repeated it. (Anne)
@Rachel I think the author chose to have us read some of the book that Winston was reading because he wanted us to see what the literature is like. It also shows the enemies point of view from Goldstein's own words. This helps us, as the reader, to further understand the society that the characters are living in.
@Paige I think sooner or later, the restistance may no longer exist within the party. People won't raise their kids with the knowledge of the past so they will become bored with concepts, and much like Julia, will no be able to understand.
@Rachel It seems that even though I almost fell asleep while reading the section, the reader learns a lot about what has happened in the world and how the civilization came to be in the 3 parts of the World. Also how the war isn't that crucial but it is vital that it happens because in order to maintain control of the people, they need someone to hate.
@Paige They will still have a say in the future, but because the generations get less and less interested in the past they won't be able to adjust them as much.
@Rachel I think it relates to current times, and Orwell was probably trying to secretly find a way to tell society that this book is somewhat ment for us.
@Class Are there any themes that have started to evolve from the book, other than challenging the system? I think a possible theme could be fight for what you believe in or you'll live life in regret.
Class I do not feel like Julia doesn't really care much for the whole resistance thing. She wants Winston to read the book for her and then she fell asleep. Does anyone Else notice this or care to give your thoughts?
@inner circle I think they give the inner party group the choice to turn off the telescreen because they are in a high job that involves "Big Brother" trusting them.
@Paige I think the younger gerneration will have some people who want to rebell but not as many. Some children will learn about the rebellions by their parents and they could grow uo believing that. (Anne)
Did anyone else suspect Mr. Charrington? Why do you think that he took so long to arrest them, why didn't he get them shortly after they wanted to use his room? Also, why do you think that he didn't arrest Winston when he bought the notebook the first time because he said that it was illegal?
@Trevor The Big Brother is probably represented like the Army kind of. The Army is not a specific person, but the use pictures of people in the army on posters and what not. So, the Big Brother is most probably an organization and they use people within that organization on posters.
@Trevor Big Brother is a mask that is an idol to the people more than a group of leaders could be. He is an invented fact that has taken all credit, allowing people to continue to believe in the party.
Nick- I think Julia cares about the resistance but in her own way. I don't think she wants to go with a different resistance than her own. She likes her ways and doesn't seem to want too much change.
@ Class On page 199, the book describes the meaning of the Party Slogan which is "War is Peace." Could it have a double meaning that for Big Brother a War could be a peace of mind that the world will remain the same for generations to come?
Trevor J. I think that Big Brother isn't a real person but it just represents what their government is like. The posters say, "Big Brother is watching," but it might just represent how the government is always watching and creates fear in everyone.
@Paige I think that it is easier for the older people who lived prior to Big Brother to join the resistence because they knew what life was like before. They have an easier time wanting things to go back to the way they were before. It will definately be harder to get the younger generations because they have been brainwashed from the start and they don't know any different than the current society.
@ Natalie B I Think Mr. Charringotn waited to arrest Winston and Julia because he knew they would eventually become part of the resistance, and when they did he figured he could get information out of them about the resistance.
@Trevor I believe we talked about it in one of our earlier discussions but the class decided "Big Brother" is a figure that is used to resemble the government as a whole.
There is a mutual agreement, though not written, between all of the three governments that they won't invade each others borders. Do the governments actually fight or are they all just one group that stays in power through war?
@Melissa But isn't there someone who leads the government then? I know they are represented as a whole but they can't all be equal or rights and laws would never be passed.
Anna Z. When Winston read the section of the book, it explained that the reason why they kept fighting was to limit resources and not allowing anyone to become relaxed and not changing, so it keeps peace inside the nation, and Big Brother could have peace at mind
Class Does anyone else have an urge for Julia to die, because I really don't like her. She has only given Winston physical satisfaction and nothing else.
Natalie and Inner Circle- I think Winston might've originally liked Winston and hesitated to turn him in. Or he just kept them around to make sure that they were involved with the Resistance. They could get more information out of Winston the longer he stayed free.
@Natalie I did not suspect Mr. Charrington. I was also wondering the same questions. Maybe he waited long because they hadn't really done anything before. I think the telescreen in the secret room was foreshadowed because every time Winston came into the room he always looked at the picture and Orwell described the picture in great detail.
@Sam Maybe there is something the author is not telling us about the past. Maybe we were at war with them before and we have never been good friends with Oceania.
Why didn't Julia or Winston seem suprised when Mr. Charrington turn off the telescreen? And didn't Julia think there might be a telescreen behind the picture the first time they were in the room? (Anne)
@Sam G. I think that the Brotherhood might have some relations with the proles but I do not think that they are closly related. I do not think that the proles are out to crash the government like the Brotherhood is. This might be the one problem with the Brotherhood and the reason that they can not overthrow the government because the proles will not cooperate.
@Rachel If the people have one person to idolize, it will have a larger effect rather than giving people the choice of many people to choose who to follow. They are trying to remove choice and a single leader is the best resolution.
Gabriella N Once during Hate Week, O'Brien looked at Winston and Winston knew that he was on his side. So later O'Brien made an excuse to give Winston his address and Winston took the risk and talked about fighting the Party.
I think Julia was taken away because she had done more crimes before she met him and was more of a threat to the Party. Winston was against the party but Julia did more about it. (Anne)
@Class At the beginning of the reading, Orwell noted how Syme had disappeared. To me, it seemed a little abrupt the way he died. Do you think Orwell was just trying to get rid of a character? Or, is it to show how quickly things move in 1984?
@mmoritz No I don't really want her to die, but i do want her out of the picture. I feel like she only want to commit small crimes and not really change the world.
@Sam I agree. Julia was very insensitive saying things about how children are swine and not listening when Winston was trying to say the real point of his story.
Anne Z. I think the paperweight resembled Julia and Winston inside their own fragile world and when the thought police came in and easily ruined it, it was like how easily the paperweight could be broken and the shell exposed.
@Sam I think Winston intrests Julia, however, I think she was getting to a point where he started to bore her. I don't think she wouldv'e stuck around for much longer.
@Sam G. I think that Oceania keeps switching allies to keep their citazens on their side and not to switch over. If a war goes on for a long time, people just want it to end because it does not look hopeful. The situation is kind of like Iraq. If they switched enemies, then the people would hate Goldstein for misleading the hatred towards Eurasia. This gets people even more mad at the old enemy (Goldstein) and more engaged in the new enemy (Eastasia).
@Jack That would be the craziest thing ever if they did turn out to be the secret police. Though i don't think it will happen, i think the resistance is legit.
@ Taylor I think it is to show how quickly the time goes by because Winston's job is to change history so if history can be changed than a person's life can be erased as well.
@Sam She has an extreme sexual appetite and probably is only using him for satisfaction. She was the catalyst to start the ball rolling but that was mainly her only role.
@Rachel Yes, I was thinking that too because the government would need to be really organized to control the country and having a group of people rule might be like 'too many chefs in the kitchen' but the book hasn't specified a certain person.
I think that Winston was getting tired of Juila not caring about what he is saying. At the beginning, Orwell said that Winston thought it was nice to have a compainion and someone to talk to but Julia can not stay awake enough to listen.
@Class
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the author chose to repeat part of Winston's book for the reader? Didn't he know it would bore them? Maybe there are some deeper meanings to the reading than it appears.
Do you think the resistance can continue with the younger brainwashed generations? If Julia struggles with grasping concepts, will they struggle more?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Julia didn't care at all for the past?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Rachel
ReplyDeleteI think that there might have been a deeper meaning to the part Winston read, but also maybe Orwell wrote it that way to reinstate the fact that Winston already knew what the book said, and it was a daily fact of life to him.
Rachel-
ReplyDeleteI think the author repeated the book to get across to the reader his thoughts. Orwell has a very journalistic style of writing and I think he thought that he wanted to spell out the themes of everything for readers. He wanted to make the lessons he wants to get across very obvious and not open to interpretation.
Taylor O
ReplyDeleteShe might not care as much because she doesn't deal with the past and deleting the past like Winston does. He is constantly making lies so it makes him curious what the truth is, but Julia doesn't get involved with the past.
@Taylor O.
ReplyDeleteI think that Julia doesn't care about the past because of her age. I think that her generation is the one that is too young to think about life before the revolution because they were too young to remember it.
-Trevor
@Taylor
ReplyDeleteJulia grew up in the middle of the madness, and so her views are tainted even though she doesn't like the party. It is probably a subconscious thing that was implanted in her for the amount of party work she puts in.
@Paige
ReplyDeleteI do think that it will be hard for the younger generations to continue on the resistance because they do not remember life before are so it might be hard for them.
@Rachel
ReplyDeleteI think Orwell included the reading section from the book so the readers would know what was in the book.
Rachel- I agree, I think the author repeated it because it could give a deeper meaning of what he wrote. Or it could be that thats what e truly believed so he repeated it. (Anne)
ReplyDelete@Rachel
ReplyDeleteI think the author chose to have us read some of the book that Winston was reading because he wanted us to see what the literature is like. It also shows the enemies point of view from Goldstein's own words. This helps us, as the reader, to further understand the society that the characters are living in.
@Paige
ReplyDeleteI think sooner or later, the restistance may no longer exist within the party. People won't raise their kids with the knowledge of the past so they will become bored with concepts, and much like Julia, will no be able to understand.
@Rachel
ReplyDeleteIt seems that even though I almost fell asleep while reading the section, the reader learns a lot about what has happened in the world and how the civilization came to be in the 3 parts of the World. Also how the war isn't that crucial but it is vital that it happens because in order to maintain control of the people, they need someone to hate.
@Paige
ReplyDeleteThey will still have a say in the future, but because the generations get less and less interested in the past they won't be able to adjust them as much.
Is Big Brother a specific person? Or is it the top group and they just make of a picture for posters?
ReplyDelete@Rachel
ReplyDeleteI think it relates to current times, and Orwell was probably trying to secretly find a way to tell society that this book is somewhat ment for us.
@Class
ReplyDeleteAre there any themes that have started to evolve from the book, other than challenging the system? I think a possible theme could be fight for what you believe in or you'll live life in regret.
Class
ReplyDeleteI do not feel like Julia doesn't really care much for the whole resistance thing. She wants Winston to read the book for her and then she fell asleep. Does anyone Else notice this or care to give your thoughts?
@inner circle
ReplyDeleteI think they give the inner party group the choice to turn off the telescreen because they are in a high job that involves "Big Brother" trusting them.
@Paige I think the younger gerneration will have some people who want to rebell but not as many. Some children will learn about the rebellions by their parents and they could grow uo believing that. (Anne)
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else suspect Mr. Charrington? Why do you think that he took so long to arrest them, why didn't he get them shortly after they wanted to use his room? Also, why do you think that he didn't arrest Winston when he bought the notebook the first time because he said that it was illegal?
ReplyDelete@Trevor
ReplyDeleteThe Big Brother is probably represented like the Army kind of. The Army is not a specific person, but the use pictures of people in the army on posters and what not. So, the Big Brother is most probably an organization and they use people within that organization on posters.
@Trevor
ReplyDeleteBig Brother is a mask that is an idol to the people more than a group of leaders could be. He is an invented fact that has taken all credit, allowing people to continue to believe in the party.
Do you think that the brotherhood has any contact with the proles? Or maybe like a fellowship or alliance?
ReplyDeleteNick-
ReplyDeleteI think Julia cares about the resistance but in her own way. I don't think she wants to go with a different resistance than her own. She likes her ways and doesn't seem to want too much change.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Rachel
ReplyDeleteI agree and I also think that the theme is that it is not worth living if you just believe what your are told and don't think.
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI did not expect Mr. Charrington. I thought he was just going to be a sweet old man, no joke. This came as a huge surprise to me.
@ Class
ReplyDeleteOn page 199, the book describes the meaning of the Party Slogan which is "War is Peace." Could it have a double meaning that for Big Brother a War could be a peace of mind that the world will remain the same for generations to come?
Trevor J.
ReplyDeleteI think that Big Brother isn't a real person but it just represents what their government is like. The posters say, "Big Brother is watching," but it might just represent how the government is always watching and creates fear in everyone.
@Jack S.
ReplyDeleteCan you explain that a little more? I think I know what you're say a little though.
@Paige
ReplyDeleteI think that it is easier for the older people who lived prior to Big Brother to join the resistence because they knew what life was like before. They have an easier time wanting things to go back to the way they were before. It will definately be harder to get the younger generations because they have been brainwashed from the start and they don't know any different than the current society.
@Sam
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that's how the brotherhood get around without being noticed. I bet they use a few proles here and there to stay hidden.
@ Natalie B
ReplyDeleteI Think Mr. Charringotn waited to arrest Winston and Julia because he knew they would eventually become part of the resistance, and when they did he figured he could get information out of them about the resistance.
@Trevor
ReplyDeleteI believe we talked about it in one of our earlier discussions but the class decided "Big Brother" is a figure that is used to resemble the government as a whole.
There is a mutual agreement, though not written, between all of the three governments that they won't invade each others borders. Do the governments actually fight or are they all just one group that stays in power through war?
ReplyDeleteWhat makes Mr. Charrington part of the Thought Police? Does he have special powers or is he given a device to read thoughts?
ReplyDelete@Class
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the states keep switching their allies? And how come Eastasia and Eurasia never form an alliance against Oceania?
@Class
ReplyDeleteHow did Winston and Julia suspect that O'Brien was part of a resistence against the government?
@Melissa
ReplyDeleteBut isn't there someone who leads the government then? I know they are represented as a whole but they can't all be equal or rights and laws would never be passed.
Anna Z.
ReplyDeleteWhen Winston read the section of the book, it explained that the reason why they kept fighting was to limit resources and not allowing anyone to become relaxed and not changing, so it keeps peace inside the nation, and Big Brother could have peace at mind
Class
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else have an urge for Julia to die, because I really don't like her. She has only given Winston physical satisfaction and nothing else.
Natalie and Inner Circle-
ReplyDeleteI think Winston might've originally liked Winston and hesitated to turn him in. Or he just kept them around to make sure that they were involved with the Resistance. They could get more information out of Winston the longer he stayed free.
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI did not suspect Mr. Charrington. I was also wondering the same questions. Maybe he waited long because they hadn't really done anything before. I think the telescreen in the secret room was foreshadowed because every time Winston came into the room he always looked at the picture and Orwell described the picture in great detail.
@ Class
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have an idea why the glass paperweight is important? Could it be how Mr. Charrington was able to spy on Winston and Julia?
@Sam
ReplyDeleteMaybe there is something the author is not telling us about the past. Maybe we were at war with them before and we have never been good friends with Oceania.
Why didn't Julia or Winston seem suprised when Mr. Charrington turn off the telescreen? And didn't Julia think there might be a telescreen behind the picture the first time they were in the room? (Anne)
ReplyDeleteGaby-
ReplyDeleteThey thought he was part of the rebellion because of their momentary glance at the beginning of the book.
@ Nick
ReplyDeleteIt pissed me off when she wasn't listening to Winston talked about his mother That was important to Winston and it was rude of her.
@Sam G.
ReplyDeleteI think that the Brotherhood might have some relations with the proles but I do not think that they are closly related. I do not think that the proles are out to crash the government like the Brotherhood is. This might be the one problem with the Brotherhood and the reason that they can not overthrow the government because the proles will not cooperate.
@Rachel
ReplyDeleteIf the people have one person to idolize, it will have a larger effect rather than giving people the choice of many people to choose who to follow. They are trying to remove choice and a single leader is the best resolution.
Gabriella N
ReplyDeleteOnce during Hate Week, O'Brien looked at Winston and Winston knew that he was on his side. So later O'Brien made an excuse to give Winston his address and Winston took the risk and talked about fighting the Party.
Moritz-
ReplyDeleteIs this one of those books with an open ending that doesn't tell us Julia's motives?
Yikes Nick--I wouldn't go that far, but hopefully she has "left the building", so to speak.
ReplyDeleteI think Julia was taken away because she had done more crimes before she met him and was more of a threat to the Party. Winston was against the party but Julia did more about it. (Anne)
ReplyDelete@Sam
ReplyDeleteI agree, it seems that she does not really care about any of this resistance, she seems to be just blowing it off.
@Class
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of the reading, Orwell noted how Syme had disappeared. To me, it seemed a little abrupt the way he died. Do you think Orwell was just trying to get rid of a character? Or, is it to show how quickly things move in 1984?
@Anne
ReplyDeleteWasn't that O'Brian who turned off the telescreen?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Paige--no. There will be an ending. It probably isn't what you expect, but the will definitely be an ending.
ReplyDeleteAnna-
ReplyDeleteI think the paperweight was just symbolism to a perfect world in the past. I don't think theres real signifigance past that.
@Taylor O I think Orwell Was trying to show how fast things can happen in the society they live in when he got rid of Syme. (Anne)
ReplyDelete@mmoritz
ReplyDeleteNo I don't really want her to die, but i do want her out of the picture. I feel like she only want to commit small crimes and not really change the world.
Why does Julia want Winston? Usually she just has sex with the person and leaves but not Winston, she stayed with him.
ReplyDelete@Sam
ReplyDeleteI agree. Julia was very insensitive saying things about how children are swine and not listening when Winston was trying to say the real point of his story.
@mmoritz and paige
ReplyDeleteProbably both of them will be killed and the "Brotherhood" will turn out to be the secret police of the party.
@sam
ReplyDeleteI think it is because they share similar ideas, there are not many people that would dare go against BB.
Taylor-
ReplyDeleteI think it's a way to express how quickly people can just disappear. One day they're there, the next they're vaporized.
Anne Z.
ReplyDeleteI think the paperweight resembled Julia and Winston inside their own fragile world and when the thought police came in and easily ruined it, it was like how easily the paperweight could be broken and the shell exposed.
@Jack--nope.
ReplyDelete@mmoritz
ReplyDeletenow that you say that, I am predicting that Julia is a spy or maybe it's something big about O'Brien. Does anybody else have any predictions?
@Sam
ReplyDeleteI think Winston intrests Julia, however, I think she was getting to a point where he started to bore her. I don't think she wouldv'e stuck around for much longer.
@Rachel--Jack does :)
ReplyDelete@Sam G.
ReplyDeleteI think that Oceania keeps switching allies to keep their citazens on their side and not to switch over. If a war goes on for a long time, people just want it to end because it does not look hopeful. The situation is kind of like Iraq. If they switched enemies, then the people would hate Goldstein for misleading the hatred towards Eurasia. This gets people even more mad at the old enemy (Goldstein) and more engaged in the new enemy (Eastasia).
@Jack
ReplyDeleteThat would be the craziest thing ever if they did turn out to be the secret police. Though i don't think it will happen, i think the resistance is legit.
@ Taylor
ReplyDeleteI think it is to show how quickly the time goes by because Winston's job is to change history so if history can be changed than a person's life can be erased as well.
@Sam
ReplyDeleteShe has an extreme sexual appetite and probably is only using him for satisfaction. She was the catalyst to start the ball rolling but that was mainly her only role.
@Rachel
ReplyDeleteYes, I was thinking that too because the government would need to be really organized to control the country and having a group of people rule might be like 'too many chefs in the kitchen' but the book hasn't specified a certain person.
@Bloggers
ReplyDeleteIn an earlier part of the book, did Winston not check behind the painting for a telescreen?
What is doublethink again?
ReplyDelete@ Class
ReplyDeleteIf Winston and Julia are caught do you think that O' Brien will be caught as well? Or will O' Brien leave and never return?
I think that Winston was getting tired of Juila not caring about what he is saying. At the beginning, Orwell said that Winston thought it was nice to have a compainion and someone to talk to but Julia can not stay awake enough to listen.
ReplyDelete