@CLASS What do you suppose was the reaction of the police when the hound lost Montag's scent at a house with the sprinklers suspiciously running on high?
@Class What do you think Montag meant when he was referring to the girl in the window who knew what it meant to rub dandelions under your chin? Did he really see Clarisse? pg.142
@Class On page 142, the dry smell of hay brought him back to a childhood memory of him visiting a farm. Why does this stand out to Montag? Does the farm hold a special feeling for Montag, or was the smell of hay jus a reminder of a memory of long ago?
@Trevor J I don't think they really thought anything of the sprinklers going off, it is a normal thing that nearly every home does so I don't think they made a second thought about it.
@Gabriella I do think he saw Clarisse,but not in human form but rather a hallucination. I think at that point he had to see her, and so his brain subconsciously made her up to be there when she really wasn't.
@inner I do believe that Montag will feel guilt if Faber were to get caught or killed because Faber has been hiding and concerned for his safety the entire time. So if Faber were to die or get caught Montag would feel that it was his fault to get him envolved in the chase by going to Faber's house.
@Gaby I think that he was just imagining Clarisse and he was thinking about her.
@Trevor The police force was super mad because they did not expect him to be that smart and becuase they needed to keep their audience captivated. Do you think that people were cheering when the force caught "Montag"?
@Trevor I think the police were probably angry that Montag had outsmarted them, but as the men had said later they couldn't lose their audience. I think the police probably know he has some connection to Faber.
@Inner Circle You asked why the government doesn't take care of the old men and people like them along the railroad lines. I think the city people look at these people as weak, non important and not worth their valuable time. I also think these people are in numbers two high to just "end" the problem. In numbers, they are safe.
@Eli I think that he enjoyed the smell of hay as a youngster. Well, not necessarily enjoyed it, he just remembered the smell of it because it must have been a great memory for him.The smell triggered his memory to go back to the event.
@Trevor I'm sure the police didn't care at all because because they don't try hard to catch them. Also the police seemed to have a victim anyway, so maybe they already knew this might happen.
@Gabriella I agree. I think they were extremely peeved that he had outsmarted them and had gotten away. They did not expect him to get away or even figure out a plan to escape.
@Angelo I think it's because he got water in his electronic body and he lost some sense of smell. I think it's also because the scent was being taken down stream so the hound couldn't pick it up very well.
@Anne The smell was just deluded and Faber burned a lot of the items that Montag was near in his house so there was not a strong scent coming from the house. That is why the hound stopped and then carried on with his search.
@innercircle I think they don't mention what the wars about because he's showing people don't focus enough about what a war is about or who they're fighting because they just expect their government to take care of it. (Anne)
@Anne We can guess that Faber did just what Montag told him too, whip down the house with alcohol, burn the chair he sat in, turn on the sprinklers, etc. and was successful in extinguishing the smell of Montag.
@Natilie The hound didn't smell him or see him because he hid/changed his scent. He poured alcohol all over and even changed his clothing to dirty elderly clothing.
I have a question: why would they be in a war if earlier on in the book, it mentioned that they were in good health and had a lot of food? What would they need to go to war for?
mmortiz The river represents freedom because once Montag had reached the river, he was able to evade the hound and head toward to railroad tracks, away from the city
Do other countries live the same way as everyone in the counrty this is taking place about because they say other countries hated them because they had perfectly good lives while they were starving. (Anne)
@Trevor I agree with Tram that the police probably didn't care much that Montag got away. All they needed to do was keep the audience interested, and it seems like they already had a plan for that incase they lost Montag. Kathleen
@innercircle The government doesn't want to capture the real Montag because they don't think he will ever come back out of fear and can't do anything outside of the sociaty so they just want people to feel secure and not frightened. (Anne)
@Class On page 159, right before the first bomb hits the city, Montag tries to urge Mildred to get out of the city and to run to safety. Why does he care when she was the one that turned him in? Does Montag still love Mildred?
@Moritz I think the river represents the path to freedom. I don't really know but when I thought of the other side of the river, I thought of reality. I thought of people talking, being happy even with the small stuff, being someone you are.
What do you think the war is about? Do you think that it is just a local war or national? Do you think that the war could be people revolting against the opressive government?
@Natalie I think the police will try to find him, they wouldn't want Montag out there, considering he is so powerful in changing minds and has no respect for the laws and way of life.
@Natalie I don't think they will try to find Montag some more, they know now that he can't really do anything. He can't exactly move to another city and live out his plan without the government noticing, so they probably just are leaving the situation be until he is seen, or starts another raucous.
@Rachel War has nothing to do with food and good health. We go to war for control and annexation of land, not food? You can't go to war for food? Maybe someone is attacking that country for their resources, maybe the country Montag lives in didn't start the war.
@MMoritz I think that the river represents the separation between the city, which houses the people that do not think anything of the situation, and the country, which was where all of the thinkers lived.
@Mitchell I agree with that because it seems as though he was on the look out for some escape and finally the river was presented in front of him and when he crossed it he was free. I think it might also represent an aegis because even though he was trying to do a good thing and bring books back to the world, he set up other firemen in the process which was bad. Though this is true, i believe he was being protected by an outer force or some one reset the hound to lose scent after he goes through the water.
@Anne No, I don't think that other countries live like them. I think that the war may have something to do with the way that they are living like, but I don't think it has anything to do with with how "perfect" their lives are. Do you think that the police try to keep people from traveling across countries? Kathleen
@Ms. Moritz I guess it is similar to a baptism without the religious aspect. The theme of washing away one's past is a reoccuring theme throughout several books or works.
@ Inner Circle I think Montag remembered where he met her because thinking of her death was such an eye opener to him that it forced some memories into his mind.
@Eli--I love it..."He saw her leaning toward the great shimmering walls of color and motion where her family talked and talked and talked to her, where the family prattles and chatted and said her name and smiled at her and said nothing of the bomb that was an inch, now a half inch, not a quarter inch from the top of the hotel." I think is shows Millie's true devotion to television and how sad he is that she is like this. :(
Eli I think that Montag begins to care about Mildred when the bombs drop because he started to remember where they meet and he began to remember that he once loved her.
@Jack That is true. It is probably more likely that we have everything and people are jealous so they start a war on us hoping to get the same resources. What do you think other countries are like then? Have they been stuck in our time with poverty and have Montag's and Mildred's country moved on into the future?
@Rachel They didn't need to go to war, but I think they are at constant war with the world because they are in constant war in their own country. They want to go to war because that's all they know and are good at. People sometimes go looking for a fight to make them feel good about themselves or just to have something to do.
@Eli I think he just is sorry because he knows she is going to die, and even though he might not have been in love with her, he did spend a significant amount of his life with her and up until about a week ago, he thought he was happy with her.
@Eli I don't think Montag still loves Mildred, but because he is a nice man he would never want to wish death upon anyone. I mean just cause he may not like her does not mean he wants to see anyone die, he is trying to save every human he can while he still has time.
@Eli I think the reason why he was urging her to leave the city is because even though she turned him in, she was still apart of his life. She was also some one he knew for a long time.
@Mrs.Moritz Sorry for the delay.I think that the river reperesents the seperation from the people in the society(Norm)and the people who would be considered as minorities if they live in the city. Also serves as a way out and a passage to freedom for Montag.
@Rachel We don't know that other countries are like, but I would assume that they are different than this one. We don't know if other countries are suffering from poverty, because people don't even know what is going on in their own country.
@Inner circle I've heard before that a shock can cause someone to remember things that they have forgotten. He may have remembered where he had met Mildred so suddenly because of the shock of watching his home get destroyed. Kathleen
@Eli I agree with Jack B with the thought that he wouldn't want her to die. He wouldn't want anyone to die. He realized how much he loved her and that he did used to love her right before the bombs hit.
@Eli I think Montag feels sad because Millie left him and he wasn't expecting her to go. After he pictures her dying he realizes the chance of them being together again won't happen.
@Natalie I think it's probably a national war, but at this point, the technolagy is so advanced that it will probably be a 48 hour war like they said earlier in the book.
@Tram It's like when someone dies now. Even if you saw them in the hallways once, or said hi to them once, after they're gone, you feel a sense of closeness and you feel like you really got to know them. i think these thoughts were going through Montag's mind that even though she had issues with drugs, he had a lot of caring for her because she is the one person he has spent his whole life with and you want to remember them. He all of a sudden had a huge care for her because that thought crossed his mind.
I think mOntag did end up caring for Millie but he didn't love her. Even when people aren't close they still care and feel hurt when something happens to eachother that makes it imposible to see them again. (Anne)
@Class On page 162, Granger says, "'City looks like a heap of baking powder. It's gone.'" Everyone is just in shock and then on page 163 someone pulls out a pan and starts to make bacon. Where did they get the bacon from and why would Ray Bradbury have put that in?
@Class How does the community along the tracks bring back the pages of books so well to be able to have a whole library of books composed of peoples memories? How do they search their brains and remember word by word?
@Gabriella I think that the firemens reactions to the hound loosing the trail would be anger, and frustration. I also think that the people in the socitety feel happy when they see Montag getting caught, although a few people who own books may fell sorrow for Montag getting caught.(Angelo)
@ Inner Circle At the end of the book, they were talking about how one of the people had come up with a method of remembering every word they had read, even if they read it just once.
@Natalie B I wondered why he put that in as well, because the bacon had no significance previously in the book unless I missed something. I think maybe he put that bacon part in to show that there was still hope? I don't know i;m so confused! Maybe Bradbury likes bacon.
@Taylor I think that that is true and that they might not even have to cross over the boarder, all they have to do is push a button and something might explode in the other country. i wonder what type of technology they have in this book for war? What have they thought of next that tops the nuclear bomb?
@Natalie I think that they had a stash or a bag that held food for them. They may have had people before that brought them food? I think that Ray Bradbury may have put that in to show that they were moving on. Kathleen
@Class--I'm pretty sure that they would not have books memorizes word by word. I think that ultimately we could all recreate books that we have read. How many of you have re-read books so many times, you feel like you could write down the story and get the jist of it. Could you re-write Macbeth?
@Anne I would think with enough will and determination, they could remember a book with only a few reads. If it's a good enough book, they can definitely remember basic parts.
In "The Pedestrian", the main character walks every night because of insomnia and now there is a character in "Fahrenheit 451" who also has insomnia and walks every night. Is this just a coincidence or did the author mean to do this? Do you the "The pedestrian" was based off Fahrenheit, or maybe "Fahrenheit 451" was based off "The Pedestrian"?
@Anne If there is something as monumental as reading a book for the first time, Montag would probably remember it. THe human brain also conciously commits information to memory if it knows that it can't be acessed again.
@Eli I believe that the community along the tracks are able to have a whole library of books because each individual remembers an entire book in memory. Also in order to search their memories to recall the book word for word they must use tecniques while studying and remembering the book.
@Natalie B. They had nothing else to do. After the bombs had fallen, they are left with a view of destruction and death; personally, I would be shocked, and through the shock also tired, and I would think about my stomach because what else is there to do. I think ray Bradbury added this to touch on how people can react to things; after destruction you could be hungry. Just a little something to think about and chew on.
@Natalie I think Bradbury added this in to show that they aren't really moved by the war and its affect on the world. They compared the world to a phoenix, when it burns, it just recreates again. This is such a sad comparison because it kind of shows that they have no more compassion for the world, these writers and used-to-be professors no longer care about the destruction of the world because they know it will in time recreate itself again.
@Natalie I think that the bacon was just their breakfast but I think Bradbury chose bacon because it required fire to cook. I think it symbolized how it is impossible to escape fire and how it is always needed.
Is it in any way possible that another country didn't bomb the city? Did they perhaps bomb it because of all the books? Did their own government bomb them?
@mmoritz I agree. It is very, very challenging to memorize a book word for word and remember every word that you have read. But after reading and understanding a work, you are able to not completely remember it, but recreate bits and pieces and remember the plot line.
@mmoritz I think that it could be possible to memorize it because when people found out that books were starting to be abolished, in a rush, people started to memorize their favorite books to keep one memory of a book in their minds before all fades away. But still, I have read the book Song of the Sparrow at least 8 times and I can't write down every part of a book.
@Jack B I definitely think that is possible, they mentioned how other countries are starving and struggling, while this countries only worry if if somebody picks up a book to read. Another countries anger or jealousy could have driven them to bomb this country.
@MMoritz I could probably re-write Macbeth, because we talked about it so in depth and I feel like i remember every part. Ask me to do it in Elizabethan though, I may struggle.:)
@Jack B I don't think that their own country bombed them because I think that they thought everything was going well. If they did do it, I would love to know why.
@Jack B. I think it was another country that bombed the city, but not because of the books. I think the world 's at war because of the lack of anything else to do. They spend their days blowing each other up, and this city was the newest target. Books are hidden in the city, but not in gigantic numbers that leads to the destruction of a whole city.
@MMoritz Yes. I could because we talked about it in depth and analyzed it. I could write the plot and the main events. But certainly not word for word.
@Tram I believe that Leoanard Mead from "The Pedestrian" is Clarisses uncle because she mentions that her uncle was once arrested for being a pedestrian. Therefor I think that "The Pedestrian" is based off of "Farenheit 451".
Was the news channel that Montags chase was on changed to automatically or did people go to it. It seems they mainly watched TV for entartainment and not news. Did they find a live chase exciting so they wanted to watch it? (Anne)
@Natalie I was thinking the same thing, but I thought I was just going crazy. It mentioned that he was killed for walking on the sidewalk and it was extremely ironic that we just read that, and then it showed up. I agree with you on this one.
Class On page 165 at the end of the book, Montag thinks of something to tell the survivors in the ruined city and decides to say, "And on either side of the river was there a tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month; And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." Why did he choose this, and what does it mean?
@Anne Although Montag may or may not have read the whole book, he still could have read the majority of the book and remembered that. Once you've read something the information should still be there, you just have to find the right way to recall it. Like how Montag remembered how he met Millie. Kathleen
@Anne I think there are farmers left because there needs to be food for the whole world, and agriculture is the biggest producers of food. I don't know if they are technologically advanced, but I do know there has to be farmers left in the world.
@Trevor they are banned all over the world. My book was banned in some parts of Europe and I know other books have been banned anywhere from Nigeria to Paris. Do you mean restrictions on what you read on the plane or what book you keep in your suitcase?
@Angelo Do you think that Ray Bradbury formed "The Pedestrian" to fit in with the plot or do you think that it is based off of Farenheit 451? He could have also written "The Pedestrian" before Farenheit 451. "The Pedestrian" could have been inspiration for the book.
@Natalie and Rachel If Fahrenheit 451 and The Pedestrian are related, how come police car machines weren't mentioned in Fahrenheit 451? Do you think they were apart of the society, just not important to the plot of Fahrenheit 451?
@Class On page 160, Montag all of the sudden remembered the book of Ecclesiastes and the book of Revelation. Granger had said he would remember the books when he needed to. Do you think he remembered them because they are the books of the Bible that talk about death, and in the paragraph before that Bradbury wrote, "The sound of its death came after"?
I love the end of the book where it says "Montag began walking and after a moment found that the others had fallen in behind him, going north. He was surprised, and moved aside to let Granger pass, but Granger looked at him and nodded him on." Do you find this an inspirations? What does this suggest about how the others feel about Montag?
@Mitchell I think that the tree to Montag is a symbol of a new life for him and a new begining. The fruits may represent the memories that will remain with him for the rest of his life.
@Annie That is a possibility. I believe these two stories connect in some way but I don't think the details were mentioned because the author was trying to drop a hint but not make it completely obvious and make them very similar.
@ Mitchell I think Montaga is relating his situation to a tree and fruit, so on his side of the river is life which is a growing tree, and knowledge which is the fruit, and freedom, something that the other side of the river is lacking in.
@Gabriella N I think that is probably what triggered the memory of the book in Montag's brain, the brain is always making connections and since death is a big part of those books he probably thought of it through the mention of death.
@mmoritz I do find this part in the boook imspiaring because it shows that even though Montag can't remember the whole book they still have complete faith in him and trust him. (Anne)
@mmoritz I'm sure that they are happy and excited to find another person like them that believes books are just fine to read and that he is trying to help get the word out that books aren't nonsense.
@Jack B I had thought of that too. I think there was a different country involved with the bombing. It doesn't seem that the government would bomb their own city because it could cause a ruckus. But if they did, then I don't think the books are the reason for bombing the city because that would mean they really don't want books to be around and if they didn't want the books around, why would they go out of their way to bomb their own city and people when there is a fugitive out on the loose that is trying to make books.
@MMoritz Mrs. Moritz I do not find it as an inspiration but it did kind of give me a warm feeling. I'm not sure Bradbury was going for an inspirational moment rather than a lesson to be learned perhaps. People feel like Montag is a good man, but they don't think of him as a hero.
@Gabriella It could be. I think both books were fresh in his mind and they sprang up because they hit him hard. It also could be showing that even after destruction and death, there can still be substance and memory through it. He remembered those books after the bombing, and he might have needed those passages then and there to remind him that life can continue.
@mmoritz The others seemed to look up to Montag kinda like Faber did, and they felt like cowards for not really trying as hard as Montag to bring back the books, also like Faber did, when they know how important books are and Montag doesn't fully understand them or their power.
@Ms. Moritz I think that the others trust Montag to lead them because he really challenged the system and executed a bold move. I feel like it represents hope for a new time that is coming.
@Trevor Oh sorry! I thought you meant today. I think that books are only banned in their country and so if he wanted I think he could but a book in a different country and read it there, but I don't think he could bring a book on the plane because technically it would still be in their country when he get's on the plane.
@Mrs.Moritz I think the ohters view Montag as a leader or an example of change. Mainly because event though all of them have also gone against the Government none of them have had to go against their job and everything they used to believe in the same way that Montag did.
@MMoritz I think they are proud of Montag and all he has done, especially because he was a fireman and he cares so much about books. They trust him to lead them.
@MMoritz I would say that this shows that these men have accepted Montag completely as one of them. They are willing to follow him even though he is the newbie to the group, and this shows Montag that he is not alone.
@Moritz I think that the guys like Montage, they feel his pain. They feel that Montage is like them. I also think That because Montage risked his life for what they feel is right(books), they respect him.
@Ms. Moritz I think that the others let Montag lead to show their exceptance. I don't believe that Montag truly felt like part of thier group until then, and they wanted him to join them. Kathleen
@Gabriella I think that since the event of death is mentioned and part of both of the books that Montag remembers is because the brain makes connections between memories.
Random questions, but how are the guys able to eat? What would they eat? They're in the middle of no where. How did they get the t.v.? How about the electricity?
@Class When the police fake Montags capture, how did the men know that they would fake that very minute? Had it happened before? Also, will the police keep looking for Montag even after the fake capture?
@Mrs.Moritz I think the others view Montag as a leader or an example of change. Mainly because even though all of them have also gone against the Government none of them have had to go against their job and everything they used to believe in the same way that Montag did.
@Eli I think that the men on the tracks knew all about the police and the government and just were smart enough to see what they would do. I do also think that they had done that before.
Eli I don't think that they will search for Montag after the fake capture because they have already satisfied the people in the city and the police have greater issues like stopping the "war" and trying to survive.
@Eli I'm sure the men were intelligent enough to be able to read the governments actions, so they knew that they didn't want people to think that they had just failed. I'm sure that, on a low key, they will keep looking for Montag
@Eli I doubt that the police planned on continuing the search for Montag. From the way that their society was described, death was a common thing. I think that the search was just so that the people had something to watch on TV and the police never really cared about if he was caught or not. He's out of the city and out of their way now, so he's nothing to worry about. Kathleen
@Eli I think they knew that they might loose Montage so that was their plan B. I think that it had happened before too because there were many other fugitives and I pretty sure they had to tape those guys too. Plus the guys knew that the police was going to catch "Montage". I think this happened to them so they knew that the police will capture a fake Montage.
I think in general that book taught us a lesson as to what might be the future of our world but i have to say it was kind of a disappointing ending. I wished he would have created a group to help bring books back to the world and not light them on fire. I'm glad though that he was excepted into a group as a leader and finally entered a society with talking and communicating.
@Gabriella I agree. I think they faked it because it has probably happened before and when it happened in the past, they got in trouble. So they want to fake it in order not to face the consequences and embarrasment.
@CLASS
ReplyDeleteWhat do you suppose was the reaction of the police when the hound lost Montag's scent at a house with the sprinklers suspiciously running on high?
@Class
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think Montag meant when he was referring to the girl in the window who knew what it meant to rub dandelions under your chin? Did he really see Clarisse? pg.142
When Montag was the barn, why did he see the Hound but the Hound did not see or smell him?
ReplyDelete@Class
ReplyDeleteOn page 142, the dry smell of hay brought him back to a childhood memory of him visiting a farm. Why does this stand out to Montag? Does the farm hold a special feeling for Montag, or was the smell of hay jus a reminder of a memory of long ago?
@Trevor J
ReplyDeleteI don't think they really thought anything of the sprinklers going off, it is a normal thing that nearly every home does so I don't think they made a second thought about it.
@Gabriella
ReplyDeleteI do think he saw Clarisse,but not in human form but rather a hallucination. I think at that point he had to see her, and so his brain subconsciously made her up to be there when she really wasn't.
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteHe didn't actually see the hound, he saw a deer, but thought it was the hound.
Trevor
ReplyDeleteThe trail wasn't lost, the hound was still able to follow Montag to the river and that's where it lost him.
@Natalie @Gaby
ReplyDeleteWas that whole section about him in the barn true or was it just him imagining? I wasn't sure but I thought it didn't actually happen.
@inner
ReplyDeleteI do believe that Montag will feel guilt if Faber were to get caught or killed because Faber has been hiding and concerned for his safety the entire time. So if Faber were to die or get caught Montag would feel that it was his fault to get him envolved in the chase by going to Faber's house.
@Natalie B
ReplyDeleteBecause his smell was completely gone, for one he was wearing Faber's clothing and he was in the river for a long while.
@Gaby
ReplyDeleteI think that he was just imagining Clarisse and he was thinking about her.
@Trevor
The police force was super mad because they did not expect him to be that smart and becuase they needed to keep their audience captivated. Do you think that people were cheering when the force caught "Montag"?
@Trevor
ReplyDeleteI think the police were probably angry that Montag had outsmarted them, but as the men had said later they couldn't lose their audience. I think the police probably know he has some connection to Faber.
@Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteYou asked why the government doesn't take care of the old men and people like them along the railroad lines. I think the city people look at these people as weak, non important and not worth their valuable time. I also think these people are in numbers two high to just "end" the problem. In numbers, they are safe.
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI think that he enjoyed the smell of hay as a youngster. Well, not necessarily enjoyed it, he just remembered the smell of it because it must have been a great memory for him.The smell triggered his memory to go back to the event.
@Trevor
ReplyDeleteThe hound never lost the trail until the hound came across the river that Montag had gone into.
Why did the hound loose Montags scent at Fabers house? wouldn't it take more than just ater to get rid of the scent? (Anne)
ReplyDelete@Trevor
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the police didn't care at all because because they don't try hard to catch them. Also the police seemed to have a victim anyway, so maybe they already knew this might happen.
@Gabriella
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think they were extremely peeved that he had outsmarted them and had gotten away. They did not expect him to get away or even figure out a plan to escape.
@Angelo
ReplyDeleteI think it's because he got water in his electronic body and he lost some sense of smell. I think it's also because the scent was being taken down stream so the hound couldn't pick it up very well.
@Angelo--Speaking of the river...what do you think it represents?
ReplyDelete@Anne
ReplyDeleteThe smell was just deluded and Faber burned a lot of the items that Montag was near in his house so there was not a strong scent coming from the house. That is why the hound stopped and then carried on with his search.
@innercircle
ReplyDeleteI think they don't mention what the wars about because he's showing people don't focus enough about what a war is about or who they're fighting because they just expect their government to take care of it. (Anne)
@Anne
ReplyDeleteWe can guess that Faber did just what Montag told him too, whip down the house with alcohol, burn the chair he sat in, turn on the sprinklers, etc. and was successful in extinguishing the smell of Montag.
@Natilie
ReplyDeleteThe hound didn't smell him or see him because he hid/changed his scent. He poured alcohol all over and even changed his clothing to dirty elderly clothing.
I have a question: why would they be in a war if earlier on in the book, it mentioned that they were in good health and had a lot of food? What would they need to go to war for?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletemmortiz
ReplyDeleteThe river represents freedom because once Montag had reached the river, he was able to evade the hound and head toward to railroad tracks, away from the city
@Ms. Moritz
ReplyDeleteI think that the river represents washing away Montag's past and the start of his new life.
@Class
Do you think that the police force will try to find him still but keep a low profile?
Do other countries live the same way as everyone in the counrty this is taking place about because they say other countries hated them because they had perfectly good lives while they were starving. (Anne)
ReplyDelete@Trevor
ReplyDeleteI agree with Tram that the police probably didn't care much that Montag got away. All they needed to do was keep the audience interested, and it seems like they already had a plan for that incase they lost Montag.
Kathleen
@Mitchell--Moritz :)
ReplyDelete@Trevor
ReplyDeleteI'm sure they were probably confused, because, if I remember correctly, then the hound almost never failed.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@MMoritz
ReplyDeleteI think that the river represents a rebirth. He is absolved of his past and given a clean slate.
@Natalie--almost like a baptism??? :)
ReplyDelete@innercircle
ReplyDeleteThe government doesn't want to capture the real Montag because they don't think he will ever come back out of fear and can't do anything outside of the sociaty so they just want people to feel secure and not frightened. (Anne)
@Class
ReplyDeleteOn page 159, right before the first bomb hits the city, Montag tries to urge Mildred to get out of the city and to run to safety. Why does he care when she was the one that turned him in? Does Montag still love Mildred?
@Moritz
ReplyDeleteI think the river represents the path to freedom. I don't really know but when I thought of the other side of the river, I thought of reality. I thought of people talking, being happy even with the small stuff, being someone you are.
What do you think the war is about? Do you think that it is just a local war or national? Do you think that the war could be people revolting against the opressive government?
ReplyDelete@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI think the police will try to find him, they wouldn't want Montag out there, considering he is so powerful in changing minds and has no respect for the laws and way of life.
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI don't think they will try to find Montag some more, they know now that he can't really do anything. He can't exactly move to another city and live out his plan without the government noticing, so they probably just are leaving the situation be until he is seen, or starts another raucous.
@Rachel
ReplyDeleteWar has nothing to do with food and good health. We go to war for control and annexation of land, not food? You can't go to war for food? Maybe someone is attacking that country for their resources, maybe the country Montag lives in didn't start the war.
@MMoritz
ReplyDeleteI think that the river represents the separation between the city, which houses the people that do not think anything of the situation, and the country, which was where all of the thinkers lived.
@Mitchell
ReplyDeleteI agree with that because it seems as though he was on the look out for some escape and finally the river was presented in front of him and when he crossed it he was free. I think it might also represent an aegis because even though he was trying to do a good thing and bring books back to the world, he set up other firemen in the process which was bad. Though this is true, i believe he was being protected by an outer force or some one reset the hound to lose scent after he goes through the water.
@Anne
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't think that other countries live like them. I think that the war may have something to do with the way that they are living like, but I don't think it has anything to do with with how "perfect" their lives are.
Do you think that the police try to keep people from traveling across countries?
Kathleen
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI think he probably cares for Mildred enough to try. He may not even love her, but I think she's probably a friend to him to an extent.
@Ms. Moritz
ReplyDeleteI guess it is similar to a baptism without the religious aspect. The theme of washing away one's past is a reoccuring theme throughout several books or works.
@ Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteI think Montag remembered where he met her because thinking of her death was such an eye opener to him that it forced some memories into his mind.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Eli--I love it..."He saw her leaning toward the great shimmering walls of color and motion where her family talked and talked and talked to her, where the family prattles and chatted and said her name and smiled at her and said nothing of the bomb that was an inch, now a half inch, not a quarter inch from the top of the hotel." I think is shows Millie's true devotion to television and how sad he is that she is like this. :(
ReplyDeleteEli
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag begins to care about Mildred when the bombs drop because he started to remember where they meet and he began to remember that he once loved her.
@Jack
ReplyDeleteThat is true. It is probably more likely that we have everything and people are jealous so they start a war on us hoping to get the same resources. What do you think other countries are like then? Have they been stuck in our time with poverty and have Montag's and Mildred's country moved on into the future?
@Rachel
ReplyDeleteThey didn't need to go to war, but I think they are at constant war with the world because they are in constant war in their own country. They want to go to war because that's all they know and are good at. People sometimes go looking for a fight to make them feel good about themselves or just to have something to do.
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI think he just is sorry because he knows she is going to die, and even though he might not have been in love with her, he did spend a significant amount of his life with her and up until about a week ago, he thought he was happy with her.
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI don't think Montag still loves Mildred, but because he is a nice man he would never want to wish death upon anyone. I mean just cause he may not like her does not mean he wants to see anyone die, he is trying to save every human he can while he still has time.
My last comment is for Jack B.
ReplyDelete@Eli
ReplyDeleteI think the reason why he was urging her to leave the city is because even though she turned him in, she was still apart of his life. She was also some one he knew for a long time.
@Mrs.Moritz
ReplyDeleteSorry for the delay.I think that the river reperesents the seperation from the people in the society(Norm)and the people who would be considered as minorities if they live in the city. Also serves as a way out and a passage to freedom for Montag.
@Rachel
ReplyDeleteWe don't know that other countries are like, but I would assume that they are different than this one. We don't know if other countries are suffering from poverty, because people don't even know what is going on in their own country.
@Inner circle
ReplyDeleteI've heard before that a shock can cause someone to remember things that they have forgotten. He may have remembered where he had met Mildred so suddenly because of the shock of watching his home get destroyed.
Kathleen
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jack B with the thought that he wouldn't want her to die. He wouldn't want anyone to die. He realized how much he loved her and that he did used to love her right before the bombs hit.
How do you think Montage and Faber knew about the other side? Does everyone know?
ReplyDelete@Eli
ReplyDeleteI think Montag feels sad because Millie left him and he wasn't expecting her to go. After he pictures her dying he realizes the chance of them being together again won't happen.
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI think it's probably a national war, but at this point, the technolagy is so advanced that it will probably be a 48 hour war like they said earlier in the book.
@Tram
ReplyDeleteIt's like when someone dies now. Even if you saw them in the hallways once, or said hi to them once, after they're gone, you feel a sense of closeness and you feel like you really got to know them. i think these thoughts were going through Montag's mind that even though she had issues with drugs, he had a lot of caring for her because she is the one person he has spent his whole life with and you want to remember them. He all of a sudden had a huge care for her because that thought crossed his mind.
I think mOntag did end up caring for Millie but he didn't love her. Even when people aren't close they still care and feel hurt when something happens to eachother that makes it imposible to see them again. (Anne)
ReplyDelete@Class
ReplyDeleteOn page 162, Granger says, "'City looks like a heap of baking powder. It's gone.'" Everyone is just in shock and then on page 163 someone pulls out a pan and starts to make bacon. Where did they get the bacon from and why would Ray Bradbury have put that in?
@Tram
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Faber knew because he is so intelligent, that his friends or former collegues are there.
@Class
ReplyDeleteHow does the community along the tracks bring back the pages of books so well to be able to have a whole library of books composed of peoples memories? How do they search their brains and remember word by word?
@Gabriella
ReplyDeleteI think that the firemens reactions to the hound loosing the trail would be anger, and frustration. I also think that the people in the socitety feel happy when they see Montag getting caught, although a few people who own books may fell sorrow for Montag getting caught.(Angelo)
@ Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the book, they were talking about how one of the people had come up with a method of remembering every word they had read, even if they read it just once.
How would they remember the whole book? Montag never read the whole book, only parts of it. (Anne)
ReplyDelete@Natalie B
ReplyDeleteI wondered why he put that in as well, because the bacon had no significance previously in the book unless I missed something. I think maybe he put that bacon part in to show that there was still hope? I don't know i;m so confused! Maybe Bradbury likes bacon.
@Taylor
ReplyDeleteI think that that is true and that they might not even have to cross over the boarder, all they have to do is push a button and something might explode in the other country. i wonder what type of technology they have in this book for war? What have they thought of next that tops the nuclear bomb?
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteThey took out a pan and made bacon because they were going to walk upstream and meet some other people, it was probably their breakfast.
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI think that they had a stash or a bag that held food for them. They may have had people before that brought them food? I think that Ray Bradbury may have put that in to show that they were moving on.
Kathleen
@Class--I'm pretty sure that they would not have books memorizes word by word. I think that ultimately we could all recreate books that we have read. How many of you have re-read books so many times, you feel like you could write down the story and get the jist of it. Could you re-write Macbeth?
ReplyDelete@Anne
ReplyDeleteI would think with enough will and determination, they could remember a book with only a few reads. If it's a good enough book, they can definitely remember basic parts.
In "The Pedestrian", the main character walks every night because of insomnia and now there is a character in "Fahrenheit 451" who also has insomnia and walks every night. Is this just a coincidence or did the author mean to do this? Do you the "The pedestrian" was based off Fahrenheit, or maybe "Fahrenheit 451" was based off "The Pedestrian"?
ReplyDelete@Anne
ReplyDeleteIf there is something as monumental as reading a book for the first time, Montag would probably remember it. THe human brain also conciously commits information to memory if it knows that it can't be acessed again.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Eli
ReplyDeleteI believe that the community along the tracks are able to have a whole library of books because each individual remembers an entire book in memory. Also in order to search their memories to recall the book word for word they must use tecniques while studying and remembering the book.
@Natalie B.
ReplyDeleteThey had nothing else to do. After the bombs had fallen, they are left with a view of destruction and death; personally, I would be shocked, and through the shock also tired, and I would think about my stomach because what else is there to do. I think ray Bradbury added this to touch on how people can react to things; after destruction you could be hungry. Just a little something to think about and chew on.
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI think Bradbury added this in to show that they aren't really moved by the war and its affect on the world. They compared the world to a phoenix, when it burns, it just recreates again. This is such a sad comparison because it kind of shows that they have no more compassion for the world, these writers and used-to-be professors no longer care about the destruction of the world because they know it will in time recreate itself again.
@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI think that the bacon was just their breakfast but I think Bradbury chose bacon because it required fire to cook. I think it symbolized how it is impossible to escape fire and how it is always needed.
Is it in any way possible that another country didn't bomb the city? Did they perhaps bomb it because of all the books? Did their own government bomb them?
ReplyDeleteAre there any farmers at all left? And if there are, are they more technology based and not actual farming? (Anne)
ReplyDelete@mmoritz
ReplyDeleteI agree. It is very, very challenging to memorize a book word for word and remember every word that you have read. But after reading and understanding a work, you are able to not completely remember it, but recreate bits and pieces and remember the plot line.
@mmoritz
ReplyDeleteI think that it could be possible to memorize it because when people found out that books were starting to be abolished, in a rush, people started to memorize their favorite books to keep one memory of a book in their minds before all fades away. But still, I have read the book Song of the Sparrow at least 8 times and I can't write down every part of a book.
@Drew--could you do Macbeth?
ReplyDelete@Tram
ReplyDeleteI am almost positive that the pedestrian was Clarisse's uncle. Do you think that it is him or is it someone else with weird habits?
@Jack B
ReplyDeleteI definitely think that is possible, they mentioned how other countries are starving and struggling, while this countries only worry if if somebody picks up a book to read. Another countries anger or jealousy could have driven them to bomb this country.
@MMoritz
ReplyDeleteI could probably re-write Macbeth, because we talked about it so in depth and I feel like i remember every part. Ask me to do it in Elizabethan though, I may struggle.:)
@Jack B
ReplyDeleteI don't think that their own country bombed them because I think that they thought everything was going well. If they did do it, I would love to know why.
@Jack B.
ReplyDeleteI think it was another country that bombed the city, but not because of the books. I think the world 's at war because of the lack of anything else to do. They spend their days blowing each other up, and this city was the newest target. Books are hidden in the city, but not in gigantic numbers that leads to the destruction of a whole city.
@MMoritz
ReplyDeleteYes. I could because we talked about it in depth and analyzed it. I could write the plot and the main events. But certainly not word for word.
@Tram
ReplyDeleteI believe that Leoanard Mead from "The Pedestrian" is Clarisses uncle because she mentions that her uncle was once arrested for being a pedestrian. Therefor I think that "The Pedestrian" is based off of "Farenheit 451".
Was the news channel that Montags chase was on changed to automatically or did people go to it. It seems they mainly watched TV for entartainment and not news. Did they find a live chase exciting so they wanted to watch it? (Anne)
ReplyDelete@Natalie
ReplyDeleteI was thinking the same thing, but I thought I was just going crazy. It mentioned that he was killed for walking on the sidewalk and it was extremely ironic that we just read that, and then it showed up. I agree with you on this one.
@Class
ReplyDeleteAre books only banned in this country or is it across the world? If it is only in their country, then are there restrictions on travel?
Class
ReplyDeleteOn page 165 at the end of the book, Montag thinks of something to tell the survivors in the ruined city and decides to say, "And on either side of the river was there a tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month; And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." Why did he choose this, and what does it mean?
@innercirlce
ReplyDeleteDidn't they say Montag as found with books and killed a man? (Anne)
@Anne
ReplyDeleteAlthough Montag may or may not have read the whole book, he still could have read the majority of the book and remembered that. Once you've read something the information should still be there, you just have to find the right way to recall it. Like how Montag remembered how he met Millie.
Kathleen
@Mrs.Moritz
ReplyDeleteAs for recalling Macbeth word for word I can not come close, but I can recall the plot.
@Anne
ReplyDeleteI think there are farmers left because there needs to be food for the whole world, and agriculture is the biggest producers of food. I don't know if they are technologically advanced, but I do know there has to be farmers left in the world.
@Trevor
ReplyDeletethey are banned all over the world. My book was banned in some parts of Europe and I know other books have been banned anywhere from Nigeria to Paris. Do you mean restrictions on what you read on the plane or what book you keep in your suitcase?
@Angelo
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Ray Bradbury formed "The Pedestrian" to fit in with the plot or do you think that it is based off of Farenheit 451? He could have also written "The Pedestrian" before Farenheit 451. "The Pedestrian" could have been inspiration for the book.
@Natalie and Rachel
ReplyDeleteIf Fahrenheit 451 and The Pedestrian are related, how come police car machines weren't mentioned in Fahrenheit 451? Do you think they were apart of the society, just not important to the plot of Fahrenheit 451?
@Class
ReplyDeleteOn page 160, Montag all of the sudden remembered the book of Ecclesiastes and the book of Revelation. Granger had said he would remember the books when he needed to. Do you think he remembered them because they are the books of the Bible that talk about death, and in the paragraph before that Bradbury wrote, "The sound of its death came after"?
I love the end of the book where it says "Montag began walking and after a moment found that the others had fallen in behind him, going north. He was surprised, and moved aside to let Granger pass, but Granger looked at him and nodded him on." Do you find this an inspirations? What does this suggest about how the others feel about Montag?
ReplyDelete@Rachel
ReplyDeleteI mean in the book, if Montag wanted to travel to find books, would he be allowed to travel?
@Mitchell
ReplyDeleteI think that the tree to Montag is a symbol of a new life for him and a new begining. The fruits may represent the memories that will remain with him for the rest of his life.
@Annie
ReplyDeleteI don't think that they were relavant to the plot of Farenheit 451.
@Annie
ReplyDeleteThat is a possibility. I believe these two stories connect in some way but I don't think the details were mentioned because the author was trying to drop a hint but not make it completely obvious and make them very similar.
@ Mitchell
ReplyDeleteI think Montaga is relating his situation to a tree and fruit, so on his side of the river is life which is a growing tree, and knowledge which is the fruit, and freedom, something that the other side of the river is lacking in.
@Gabriella N
ReplyDeleteI think that is probably what triggered the memory of the book in Montag's brain, the brain is always making connections and since death is a big part of those books he probably thought of it through the mention of death.
@mmoritz
ReplyDeleteI do find this part in the boook imspiaring because it shows that even though Montag can't remember the whole book they still have complete faith in him and trust him. (Anne)
@mmoritz
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that they are happy and excited to find another person like them that believes books are just fine to read and that he is trying to help get the word out that books aren't nonsense.
@Jack B
ReplyDeleteI had thought of that too. I think there was a different country involved with the bombing. It doesn't seem that the government would bomb their own city because it could cause a ruckus. But if they did, then I don't think the books are the reason for bombing the city because that would mean they really don't want books to be around and if they didn't want the books around, why would they go out of their way to bomb their own city and people when there is a fugitive out on the loose that is trying to make books.
@MMoritz
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz I do not find it as an inspiration but it did kind of give me a warm feeling. I'm not sure Bradbury was going for an inspirational moment rather than a lesson to be learned perhaps. People feel like Montag is a good man, but they don't think of him as a hero.
@Gabriella
ReplyDeleteIt could be. I think both books were fresh in his mind and they sprang up because they hit him hard. It also could be showing that even after destruction and death, there can still be substance and memory through it. He remembered those books after the bombing, and he might have needed those passages then and there to remind him that life can continue.
@mmoritz
ReplyDeleteThe others seemed to look up to Montag kinda like Faber did, and they felt like cowards for not really trying as hard as Montag to bring back the books, also like Faber did, when they know how important books are and Montag doesn't fully understand them or their power.
@Ms. Moritz
ReplyDeleteI think that the others trust Montag to lead them because he really challenged the system and executed a bold move. I feel like it represents hope for a new time that is coming.
@Trevor
ReplyDeleteOh sorry! I thought you meant today. I think that books are only banned in their country and so if he wanted I think he could but a book in a different country and read it there, but I don't think he could bring a book on the plane because technically it would still be in their country when he get's on the plane.
@Mrs.Moritz
ReplyDeleteI think the ohters view Montag as a leader or an example of change. Mainly because event though all of them have also gone against the Government none of them have had to go against their job and everything they used to believe in the same way that Montag did.
@MMoritz
ReplyDeleteI think they are proud of Montag and all he has done, especially because he was a fireman and he cares so much about books. They trust him to lead them.
@MMoritz
ReplyDeleteI would say that this shows that these men have accepted Montag completely as one of them. They are willing to follow him even though he is the newbie to the group, and this shows Montag that he is not alone.
@Moritz
ReplyDeleteI think that the guys like Montage, they feel his pain. They feel that Montage is like them. I also think That because Montage risked his life for what they feel is right(books), they respect him.
@Ms. Moritz
ReplyDeleteI think that the others let Montag lead to show their exceptance. I don't believe that Montag truly felt like part of thier group until then, and they wanted him to join them.
Kathleen
@Gabriella
ReplyDeleteI think that since the event of death is mentioned and part of both of the books that Montag remembers is because the brain makes connections between memories.
@innercirlce
ReplyDeleteI don't think Montag did kno whow fire could be used for things besides destroying objects. (Anne)
Random questions, but how are the guys able to eat? What would they eat? They're in the middle of no where. How did they get the t.v.? How about the electricity?
ReplyDelete@Class
ReplyDeleteWhen the police fake Montags capture, how did the men know that they would fake that very minute? Had it happened before? Also, will the police keep looking for Montag even after the fake capture?
@Tram
ReplyDeleteThey are homeless, maybe they stole them, or had the t.v. from before.
@Mrs.Moritz
ReplyDeleteI think the others view Montag as a leader or an example of change. Mainly because even though all of them have also gone against the Government none of them have had to go against their job and everything they used to believe in the same way that Montag did.
Final Comments...?
ReplyDelete@Anne
ReplyDeleteThat is a really good point. Most people probably think that fire can only be used for destruction.
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI think the men knew the police would fake it because the same thing may have happened to other men in the group.
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI think that the men on the tracks knew all about the police and the government and just were smart enough to see what they would do. I do also think that they had done that before.
Eli
ReplyDeleteI don't think that they will search for Montag after the fake capture because they have already satisfied the people in the city and the police have greater issues like stopping the "war" and trying to survive.
@Inner Circle
ReplyDeletethe men were very inviting because they possibly could have been him once in their lives and others invited them into this society.
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the men were intelligent enough to be able to read the governments actions, so they knew that they didn't want people to think that they had just failed. I'm sure that, on a low key, they will keep looking for Montag
@Anne
ReplyDeleteI agree, because pretty much his entire life he was using the fire for something he THOUGHT was good, so how would he know any different?
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI doubt that the police planned on continuing the search for Montag. From the way that their society was described, death was a common thing. I think that the search was just so that the people had something to watch on TV and the police never really cared about if he was caught or not. He's out of the city and out of their way now, so he's nothing to worry about.
Kathleen
@Eli
ReplyDeleteWould the police have died as well in the bombing of the city?
@Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Montag had knowledge about the other reasons fire is used besides buring books.
@Eli
ReplyDeleteI think they knew that they might loose Montage so that was their plan B. I think that it had happened before too because there were many other fugitives and I pretty sure they had to tape those guys too. Plus the guys knew that the police was going to catch "Montage". I think this happened to them so they knew that the police will capture a fake Montage.
I think in general that book taught us a lesson as to what might be the future of our world but i have to say it was kind of a disappointing ending. I wished he would have created a group to help bring books back to the world and not light them on fire. I'm glad though that he was excepted into a group as a leader and finally entered a society with talking and communicating.
ReplyDelete@Gabriella
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think they faked it because it has probably happened before and when it happened in the past, they got in trouble. So they want to fake it in order not to face the consequences and embarrasment.