I think that all the characters in "Farenheit 451" think death is something that doesn't need to be discussed. It happens all the time, so it's almost like something that is normal. There is a war going on, so people are probably dying and since they are burning books, it's almost like letting those books die. Death is normal, so they blow it off.
@Casey I think that Mildred still cares about Montag, she just also seems to care more about her 'family' than him. If she didn't care about Montag she would probably try to turn him in.
Montag is curious about books and finds a copy of the bible. He takes it to Faber and they decide to see what Beatty thinks about the idea of the bible and generally all books by Montag wearing Faber's earpiece.
@ Kathryn There plan is to take the books Montag has collected and reprint then so many people can see them and read them. It is just to spread knowledge.
@Hailey~ Well what about nowadays? What happens when people die in the war now or when people OD now? Just because it's slightly more common in Farenheit 451 world doesn't mean it's completely disconnected.
@Willie That's actually a really interesting point. Do you think they even marry out of love? Maybe they just get married becasue that's what everybody does.
@Kathryn- I think he is going to turn in one book to Beatty and hope that he thinks that that's all the books he has. He is debating whether to turn in a more valuable book or not. So basically he knows that Beatty knows he has books, but Beatty doesn't know how many.
@inner Circle I don't think that Mildred cares about Montag's feelings. She is to caught up in what is happening in the TV parlor. Maybe if she didn't have the parlor she might stop and think about what is happening around her.
I think the characters believe they can avoid negative outcomes. The TV room is like a zoning out room. There doesn't seem to be any natural thinking at all.
@Hailey I really agree with how you said that they view death as something you just don't talk about. It seems to really be the normal in this society. With the war going on, and then all of the high speeds and dangers that even the kids are all putting themselves into, death just doesn't seem to matter to anyone there.
That is quite true. Clarisse said her friends kill each other and nobody really even cares except for the two families involved. Death in Fahrenheit 451 is not something that matters to almost anyone.
@brooke you know it really does seem like that in the book that everyone thinks for themselves but i think they do care in a different sense then we do today (a loving way) but they care in a sense that people are just "there" they don't actually lovingly care for each other.
@Willie and Drew- I honestly think that they do get married out of love. I can just imagine that in the past, Mildred and Montag were really in love. Just the way Montag rues the past and really thinks about how it used to be different makes me think he used to love her.
I think a lot of the characters in the book are very self centered. Mildred cares more about her tecnology and her belongings than she cares about her husband. Beatty is also a self centered person, but there are characters such as Clarisse and Faber that do care about the happiness and well-being of everyone.
I think those books pull a society together instead of ripping it apart. It shows people their differences and allows them to get over them and become closer. It keeps everybody different mentally and keeps society fresh and special; that only books can provide.
@Joe Even without the parlor, there is still not love or connection between Mildred and Montag. If the parlor was gone, I don't think she would even care then. She would probably just find something else to focus on or ask Montag to buy more technology for her.
What does everyone think of Faber? Do you like him as a character? What do you think he represents, and do you think Montag might use him to fill Clarisse's place?
@Blake~What do you mean by a different sense? I don't know if Millie really cares about Montag at all, but are you implying that love is just "different"?
@Joe- I don't think that if the parlor was taken from Mildred she'd actually care or pay attention to Montag. She would find a different distraction to take her away from reality, like the earbuds or pills or something. She's just like that.
@Drew: That's true. Like what Beatty said; "Out of the nursery,into college,and back to the nursery" (Pg 55).In olden times there was arranged marriage, and I think that the world we're reading about is an old society with new technology.
I don't know. Everybody talked about in the book doesn't seem to enjoy being married, so it's not likely out of love. Just tradition has told them to marry someone.
@Maggie Possibly. I tend to think that Faber is not replasing Clarisse, rather just a character in the book that continues to push Montag to challenge the government. I also think that Faber is not as daring and bold as Clarisse. I think Clarisse would have been willing to die for her beliefs, but Farber will act on what he thinks as long as he doesn't get caught.
@class- why do you think that Montag went to Faber when he knew Faber was a "fugitive" to society as a massive book hoarder and could be caught at any moment?
@Savannah- I agree. I think that everyone in this society think that if they can distract themselves from reality, then reality won't affect them, which is completely untrue. Like Mildred for example, uses the parlor as a little escape from reality. I think she's afraid of what might happen to her life and her future if she faces reality.
@Inner Circle~ The thing is that you choose to read or watch. If the parents are so mad about what content is part of a book then it should be a personal matter not one to ban the book from a whole school or county.
@Eliza Faber is really a character who wants to change society but just doesn't have the courage to do it. He could make a large difference in the world. In my mind he represents the common person in society. They want to do something to change the way things are now since they don't agree, but they also think that no one is on their side and they just don't want to stand out and deal with the consequences of that.
@Hailey You make a good point. Do you think maybe times have changed since Montag and Mildred fell in love? Maybe, marriage is different now than it was when they first got married. That could be why they have lost their connection. Society and technology have taken over.
@Elli- I agree about the personal part. If there is a book or movie or anything that someone does not agree with, they should just discourage or not allow their child to read it. If someone else wants to read it, then they should be able to. I think that is a lot like books in "Farenheit 451". If someone does not agree with it, then they should just not read the books. But if you have no problem, then you should be able to. Yet I know that there is much more to it than that. The government is involved and in this book, government rules all.
@Blake I think Montag went to Farber, because at this point he is realizing that he has no hope in getting help from Millie. I think Montag is desperate to try to get answers even if he doesn't get the information from Farber.
I think books are more set in stone than a movie, a movie can be interpreted in similar fashions that a book can't provide. Movies have a visual aspect that gives everybody the same thought or similar thoughts than other viewers while a book can be seen in many aspects on how the mind sees it and how people see it.
@Blake I think that Montag went to Faber because he remembered that Faber thought the same way that Montag does now. He seems to have the "old fashioned thinking" like what Clarisse had. He knew that Faber loved books and didn't like what was going on in society with the burning of the books, and that maybe he would be able to help because of this belief.
@Willie That's exactly what I was thinking before. However, Hailey did make a good point. When Montag thinks back to when he and Mildred first met, it did seem like he loved her. As I said in my comment to Hailey, times have probably changed that now people only marry out of tradition. Montag and Mildred's relationship is changing with the society.
@Class Do you think that the society in the book is anything like what we have now? How can all of the characters relate to people that are existing now in our society?
@Reid- Ooh, I really like that. I totally agree. Books are open to interpretation and movies are kinda not. Someone can only see a murder scene in a movie one way, while a murder scene in a book can be interpreted in many ways.
I think that Montag thinks that Faber can help him. Yes, Faber hoards books, but Montag has a collection of books too. Montag may look to Faber for help and advice. Faber and Montag are very alike.
I think Faber will be similar to Clarisse in the sense that he will help Montag challenge the system. The relationship between them is very different. But will have the same outcome
Although this society had progressed in technology, they have regressed as a people. Is it just because the fact that books are banned, or is will this happen regardless? Is our society slowly receding into uneducated entertainment-minded monkeys?
Mildred is so absorbed with the TV parlor. She rarely has time to love Montag or to even talk in depth about anything. Maybe that is why she' isn't a mother. She either wouldn't want to take care of them, or she knows she wouldn't make time for them like a true mother would.
@Reid: How are books set in stone? If anything, I think that they're more open to interperatation. For a movie,everyone sees the characters the same.In a book,a character is imagined differently by every single person.
@inner circle- basically, they are controversial because imagination wonders when reading a book, due to rading background and learning, books develop thinking that "should'nt be allowed" in their society
@Class Do you think that Beatty has any idea about the mass amount of books that Montag has? Also, do you think that Beatty sent the hound to confirm his suspisions?
@Eliza~ I think that's a very interesting quote because it shows the dependence of humans on technology and the role of powerful people. The technology thing because everything seems cold and metal and not genuine, and the powerful people thing because he says "if they would just turn on the electronic sun" so he's just talking about the nonspecific authority figures that have the power to do so.
@Brooke and Blake- Yes, I agree with Brooke. Faber reminds Montag of himself, and I think that Montag is so desperate to find someone that has the same view of books as him that he seeks him out. Can you imagine what Montag must feel? He's an outcast! He is pretty much the only one that he knows except for Faber and Clarissa (who is gone) that is accepting of books. He must feel depressed because even his wife doesn't accept him! But I don't think that Faber is replacing Clarissa. Clarissa filled up Montag's heart in a way no one else will be able to. She was a friend, I think Faber will become more of a partner.
@Maggie I kind of agree to you question about Fabor replacing Clarisse. I think that Montag needs support to challenge the system, but since Clarisse died, he hasn't had anyone to support him. Now Fabor is Montag's support.
He needed someone who could help him understand the books. He knew that Faber used to be a professor, and he also knew he could trust him, as Faber trusted Montag that day in the park.
@Heidi Our society today will probably slowly progress to what is happening in the book and how everyone is going to technology to talk to everyone. People are talking less in person, less on the phone even. Everything has already gone to just texting, or talking to each other through email or even Facebook.
@Kathryn I think it could. Just think about the times we live in now. In the 14-15 years we've been alive, such incredible technology has come out and so many new laws have been passed. The iPod came out when we were in elementary school! A lot can happen in just 10 short years.
I think that Montag went to Faber because he needed to go to someone, and Faber felt the same way. He isn't replacing Clarisse, but he sort of serves as the same purpose. I don't think Montag could actually "rebel" and read the books if he didn't have someone to agree with him, so that is why he goes to Faber.
@Heidi The people have regressed not necessarily because books are banned but because intelligence is viewed as a bad thing in society. Everyone just wants to go with the flow so they don't even think.
@Ellen and Inner Circle They could loose a lot. Though they don't have much to loose among other people. They can't loose each other. Their possessions have taken the place of real people. They are starting to care more about all of these things than the people that could offer so much more than a simulation of a family in the parlor.
To a certain extent, I think you're right. But the way a book is written (Point of view) certainly has a huge impact on how you view the events in the story and which characters you like, etc. A movie is only a book in visual form, I mean, it comes from a script, doesn't it?
@Inner Circle Do you think maybe books are more contraversial than movies because they are much more free for interpretations, think about the difference between watching a story and reading a story. When you read a story you can make your own image of the characters and you can decide for yourself what the intention of a character actually is. Where-as if you see it on a screan someone else already deicided what everything was about and they force their own opinion on you instead of you being able to make up your own judgments.
@Kathryn- I think that it was a mutual agreement not to have kids. I think that Mildred probably didn't want to, and honestly, do you think Montag would want to have kids with a woman who would pay no attention to them? He would have been the sole care taker of them, and really, with his job, he has no time for that. I don't know about society because we haven't been exposed to all of society yet.
@Willie Books have their own views. For example, some one could see the battle in many ways; they could see it as bloody and gruesome or just soldiers running through a field of daisies with no weapons. It is just how the message comes across. In a movie there is only one thing to see, so everyone thinks of it in the same manner.
@Drew: I guess...but the book burning has been going on for a long time, as far as we know. Do you think that the society could be like that when we're 25? 35?
@Brooke~ I think its scary (and mildly funny) because even email is becoming obsolete. You can just Facebook a person and it's even faster because they can get all their information in one place instead of having to go to their email as well as a social network. If you want to hang out with someone, you don't email them, you either text them or message them if they're online on Facebook. It's easier and faster and every form of communication is leading back to it.
I agree that as the censoring of literature increases, the progress of society will decrease. The less information citizens can get, the less intelligent they are. If the citizens have little intelligence, nothing can be accomplished.
@Inner Circle Like you said with the people not having anything to lose, that is kind of like Mildred and other people all taking the medication. People just have no reason to actually live anymore. They just go through life. They have no family or friends. They do not connect personally with anyone.
@Hailey In your response to Brooke and Blake, you said Montag was an outcast and he was the only one who felt that way about books. Is he really an outcast? Not everyone is going to be like Mildred. Montag burns people's houses and books for a living. They feel the same way about books that he does. Don't you think Montag and Faber could easily find other people to join their cause?
@Maggie Well, I really like how Bradbury adds the dialouge between Montag and Millie about the TV 'family'. I really don't think that she finds true happiness. In fact, while I was reading that part, I could almost feel the long pause after Montag asked Millie if the 'family' gave her happiness. This is because truely, Millie cannot feel loved or happy from her TV.
@inner circle- Does it seem like the religion has been stricken from their society? Does it seem like religious figures create such a problem to their society?
@Klarissa I think that Beatty definitely realizes that Montag has books, granted I don't think that he realizes just how many books Montag really has in his possession. I doubt that he sent the dog himself, the dog seems to really just be looking for the possibility itself. After all it does have certain programming. The programing could have been altered by someone though...
I see Fahrenheit 451 as awareness. In order to improve society(if needed to)we have to hold on to the original was of communicating and learning Just because it takes longer, doesn't mean it's going to harm anyone.
@Willie- Whoa, good question. I think that sentimental is an unknown word to these people. They have nothing sentimental. The closest thing they have to sentimental is stuff that they can't live without...or rather, stuff they THINK they can't live without. Mildred thinks she can't live without her "family" but it's not sentimental to her.
@Inner circle The Doritos comercial just oes to show that even a screen can be controversial. When they made the comercial it was probably with good intention but since one person spread their own idea the picture was protrayed very differently.
I don't think they really have anything to lose. I mean, sure, they have their TV's, and electronics to lose, but they don't have any loved ones that care about and would be sad if they were gone. They don't have any true feelings or love for anything, but the television. I agree with Montag. If I were him, I would feel like I had nothing to lose.
@Kathryn Books are more set in stone because those words are always there for some one to see. There are remakes of movies for a reason, they are not as set in stone. A movie is only one interpretation of the book.
What relationship? They don't seem to have anything going for them at this point. However, I do think they will stay together, if only because they don't care enough to leave.
@Taylor Montag and Mildred probably will stay married unless something catastrophic happens where one of them dies or something. Divorce doesn't seem like it would really be even evident in this society. Montag and Mildred barely talk as it is, they are just strangers that are sharing a house to start with.
@Willie I think that at this point people don't know what is sentimental the people. They seem to not even care about each other. I think this is why Montag is feeling the way he is, because he doesn't know what to love or find sentimental anymore.
@Kathryn I think that if society keeps relying on technology and other things, then our society will definitely change. Already, school systems are changing. Like for example what we are doing right now. Instead of talking in person, we are having a conversation over the internet, about how we are too reliant on technology. It is very ironic. I think that this way we are living is definitely going to effect our world in a few years. Its rapidly changing now, so its scary to think about what it could be like in 20 years or so.
@Kathryn They have been burning books for a long time but do we know how long it took them to get to that point? Remember the Sedition act in WWI? In just a few months, the government immediately put restrictions on what people could say. Our society could get to a point of serious restriction and censorship in less than a year if the government all agreed on it.
@Class Do you think that the society as a whole agrees with the banning of books? Or, could they just think everyone else believes in it so they all conform to that idea?
@Kathryn I doubt they will be able to get support. There is not enough people that care. Even if they get caught they will still stir the pot and somewhat challenge the system.
@Class- Savannah said she views this book as awareness. I agree... but do you guys think that everyone else will? Do you think that this book has the power to change society? I don't. I think that as much as we say it is a 'motivator for social change', I don't think it will affect our society at all. It has been around for fifty years, and it hasn't changed anything we've done. Do you think that it has the possibility to affect society fifty years later after it's been written? On the same note, do you honestly think books have the power to change our society at all in general?
@Emma They also didn't think about how burning books might be offensive to other people. The bible might be considered offensive to some religions, but isn't it just as offensive to Christians if the government is burning their bible?
@Kathryn This is a good question, considering that Montag cannot even get help from is own wife. I think it may be hard for them, because everyone is sucked into the life of their television.
@Inner circle~ coming from the Jewish perspective, I agree with the people who say that religion plays a major role in society and commercial interest. Often I find things that are subtly or directly offensive to me but I don't complain because I don't feel like I could get anywhere with it. However, if it was a book that was offensive to a larger religion such as Christians, they would be able to get much further because they have the advantage of mass-there are a lot of them.
@ inner circle How does this Doritos commercial have any relevance to Fahrenheit 451? It just states that some people are way to radical in their beliefs and has no relevance to how one appears in a book. Every book can be controversial to a certain group. That commercial just ticked someone off who had certain amount of power or not a great sense of humor.
@Baergen I agree! This book is really seeming to show where our society could really be in a few decades. It's scary to think how we are criticizing it so much right now, but yet so many aspects of whats in Fahrenheit 451's society and our society are really the same or so similar. It could be happening to all of us in our life times.
@inner circle- Do you think that the books are honestly controverstial? Do you think that people think they want to get rid of books to make everyone the same in thought and actions?
It's hard to say, really. There might be enough people that still hide books, but it's likely that there are very few who would like to challenge "The Government".
@Hailey I think people want to think of books as motivators for social change, but I agree with you that it really won't change anything. I think books make people think about our society and how we could change it, but people don't actually do anything.
@Gabe- I think that it could be both ways. I think that either most of the society can feel the same way as Montag, or that they all agree with the government. It kinda reminds me of Adolph Hitler, the Germans, and World War II. Everyone thought during that time that all Germans agreed with Hitler's ways. But it wasn't true. Most of them did not, and the ones that did were sometimes forced into it. They were scared. I think that may be how this society is.
@Hailey The books themselves sure don't have enough power to change society. Its just one persons view among billions of others. It takes more than just one to change society. There has to be those that agree and are willing to change the society and accept the risks that come along with it.
@inner circle- Michael did bring up that the book does show that religion has been destroyed because the books and religions show that people can have free thought
@inner circle I don't think that there are religions but it is surprising that there isn't. Since the government is so controlling it would make sense for them to control people by using religion. Instead they use the TV.
I'm sure there are many people that don't agree with it. If everyone agreed, then they wouldn't even need the firemen. Faber and Mrs.Blake both prove that there are people who don't agree with book burning, and I think Montag will become one of those people later on in the story.
@ Katy I think society had a huge impact on Mildred's decision not to have children. It's a possibility that Montag had a say in this too. He's a fireman; he doesn't have time to be a dad. Before this society, people with very busy jobs were able to juggle all their responsibilities. Being a parent takes time every single day. Maybe Mildred realizes who she is, when she O.D.'s on sleeping pills and her personality in the parlor. Maybe she doesn't want to raise children like her and Montag. Could it be she wants to change society too, but she refuses to share he ideas or thoughts? Or maybe she loves the way things are? Her life revolves around her family.
@Hailey I don't neccesarily think that books have the power to completely change or reform society, but they can make usmore aware. You asked if books could be a motivator for social change. I think that they can becasue they might not completely change the society but they might motivate people to take baby steps in that direction. The content of books can influence people to try to make a change. Montag, for example, was driven to make a change just by seeing how society was before. If people see how things could be, they often try to keep it from happening.
@Joe That is a good point. It just reinforces the idea that television is completely controlling their society and that people aren't actually caring about others, just t.v
@Reid This is probably because of what Beatty was saying in his speech in our last reading section. Give people only one side of the story, don't even let them think about it. Books provide to much area to think about what they mean, while the newspapers can be so generic and demeaning, I would guess especially in this society, that no one would have enough room to gain their own opinion on it. It's all already set in stone, there's no arguing it.
@Willie~ define mainstream? What do you mean a mainstream religion? Religious views are so radically different now that what would a compromise consist of?
@Hailey I think that is a very good point. People in this society could just be scared to think of what the world would be like with free thought. Think about it they would actually have to work and think through difficult situations. People got there because of propoganda and now their scared to go back because they have heard all these fake and terrible stories about how the world used to be.
@Reid- Books are banned because they can't control what his written in them. I think that since most of the books were written in the past, such as Shakespeare or the Bible, they are afraid they may contain content that sparks a rebellion or something like that. Yet, the pamphlets and stuff like that....well, maybe the government controls all the companies that make them, so that they may censor and choose the content.
When Montag was trying to get Mildred to read the books, she refused, saying that they were useless. She only thinks in "practicality" and "Reality" and in turn can't comprehend the abstract concepts of fiction or philosophy. Assuming that Mildred is a representative of society's norm, how can books ever recover unless something is done to change their way of thinking?
I would have to agree with Kathryn in the inner circle. He is on her side and Clarisse was the catalyst as we said and she could be driving his ambition to save books and literature all together.
@Elli I agree with the fact that christians have a lot of power in the world today. That is the way it is and it doesnt seem fair but I dont think that it will be changed for a while. Thats not right.
@Savannah: Do you think the whole society is like this? We have only seen Montag and Mildred. We don't know if people still have children. If that ever happened, what would happen? Would the human race just die out?
@Gabe- Exactly. People in this society say they will do stuff and don't. People are too scared that they might disrupt what the world is like and cause some major cataclysmic change. I think that if we weren't so scared to do so, books and literature would be a great way to motivate people and plant ideas in their mind.
@Maggie Montag may have still gone to Faber for help even if Clarisse was still around. I think this because he would need more help than just a young girl who is still in school. He would want someone who was still around when society was more "old fashioned" than it is now in the book.
@Gabe and Hailey That's what I was thinking as well. However, maybe not everyone is afraid to take a stand against the government. Why do you think most people risk being arrested and having their houses burned down by keeping books? That is probably how most of them make their point.
@Hailey What about the companies who publish the books they have more power on keep away controversial subjects than the average person at their house who is printing 1,000 copies a day. That can't be controlled.
I am not so sure about Beatty. I feel like he could go either way. He is arrogant and tough, but it could just be a mask that he is putting up for people. Maybe he puts on that act because he knows it's what people want a firefighter to be like, but we haven't really gotten to see what his true thoughts are. Take Montag, for example. He was just another firefighter at first, but when Clarisse came along, he was changed. Maybe Beatty is really a different person on the inside. Maybe when beatty first got his job, he believed it all and agreed with it. However, maybe Beatty is having different thoughts and feelings now, but he feels like, because of his authority and job, he can't act on these feelings. If this is the case with Beatty, maybe Montag and Fabor's rebellion is all he is going to need to see that he, too, can challenge the system.
@Inner circle The tooth paste commercial really shows how there can't be a full train of thought. It's like the other short story that we read (not the Pedestrian) They can't have enough time to think.
@Heidi I had the same question. This is where I get stuck. How many people can there possibly be like Montag and Farber? I really don't think that Montag and Farber can overthrow the government by themselves.
@Heidi- I disagree. Mildred isn't thinking in reality at all. She is stuck in her electronic world all day, shut OUT from reality. I think she thinks books are TOO realistic...she'd rather be in her technology world where nothing goes wrong and she controls everything...she can't control what are in these books, and she can't understand.
@inner circle I think Montag can't pay attention due to the fact he is paranoid of getting caught with this book and can't focus or keep his eye on the prize.
@Class:
ReplyDeleteI'm confused!!! What exactly was Faber and Montag's plan?
If people focus mainly on themselves, why are they ever married to each other? There doesn't seem to be much love between Montag and Millie.
ReplyDelete@class
ReplyDeleteDo you really think that everyone is that self-centered? Do they really not care about anyone but themselves?
@Kathryn~ I had the same question, it was fairly vague.
ReplyDeleteI think that all the characters in "Farenheit 451" think death is something that doesn't need to be discussed. It happens all the time, so it's almost like something that is normal. There is a war going on, so people are probably dying and since they are burning books, it's almost like letting those books die. Death is normal, so they blow it off.
ReplyDelete@ Class
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Faber is replacing the role of Clarisse in Montag's life?
@Casey
ReplyDeleteI think that Mildred still cares about Montag, she just also seems to care more about her 'family' than him. If she didn't care about Montag she would probably try to turn him in.
@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteI think that they are going to plant books in firemans' houses. They are going to make copies of the books.
@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteMontag is curious about books and finds a copy of the bible. He takes it to Faber and they decide to see what Beatty thinks about the idea of the bible and generally all books by Montag wearing Faber's earpiece.
@ Kathryn
ReplyDeleteThere plan is to take the books Montag has collected and reprint then so many people can see them and read them. It is just to spread knowledge.
@Hailey~ Well what about nowadays? What happens when people die in the war now or when people OD now? Just because it's slightly more common in Farenheit 451 world doesn't mean it's completely disconnected.
ReplyDelete@Willie
ReplyDeleteThat's actually a really interesting point. Do you think they even marry out of love? Maybe they just get married becasue that's what everybody does.
@Class:
ReplyDeleteJust FYI,"Kathryn" is actually Katie Cooper.
@Kathryn- I think he is going to turn in one book to Beatty and hope that he thinks that that's all the books he has. He is debating whether to turn in a more valuable book or not. So basically he knows that Beatty knows he has books, but Beatty doesn't know how many.
ReplyDelete@inner Circle
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Mildred cares about Montag's feelings. She is to caught up in what is happening in the TV parlor. Maybe if she didn't have the parlor she might stop and think about what is happening around her.
I think the characters believe they can avoid negative outcomes. The TV room is like a zoning out room. There doesn't seem to be any natural thinking at all.
ReplyDelete@Brooke
ReplyDeleteMany people are self-centered. Of course there are a lot of people who care about others, but everybody does selfish thing.
@Hailey
ReplyDeleteI really agree with how you said that they view death as something you just don't talk about. It seems to really be the normal in this society. With the war going on, and then all of the high speeds and dangers that even the kids are all putting themselves into, death just doesn't seem to matter to anyone there.
@Hailey
ReplyDeleteThat is quite true. Clarisse said her friends kill each other and nobody really even cares except for the two families involved. Death in Fahrenheit 451 is not something that matters to almost anyone.
@brooke
ReplyDeleteyou know it really does seem like that in the book that everyone thinks for themselves but i think they do care in a different sense then we do today (a loving way) but they care in a sense that people are just "there" they don't actually lovingly care for each other.
@Willie and Drew- I honestly think that they do get married out of love. I can just imagine that in the past, Mildred and Montag were really in love. Just the way Montag rues the past and really thinks about how it used to be different makes me think he used to love her.
ReplyDelete@ Brooke
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of the characters in the book are very self centered. Mildred cares more about her tecnology and her belongings than she cares about her husband. Beatty is also a self centered person, but there are characters such as Clarisse and Faber that do care about the happiness and well-being of everyone.
I think those books pull a society together instead of ripping it apart. It shows people their differences and allows them to get over them and become closer. It keeps everybody different mentally and keeps society fresh and special; that only books can provide.
ReplyDelete@class- Inner circle
ReplyDeleteDo you think the hound that was at the door was the one from the fire station?- if so why was it there?
@Joe
ReplyDeleteEven without the parlor, there is still not love or connection between Mildred and Montag. If the parlor was gone, I don't think she would even care then. She would probably just find something else to focus on or ask Montag to buy more technology for her.
@class
ReplyDeleteWhat does everyone think of Faber? Do you like him as a character? What do you think he represents, and do you think Montag might use him to fill Clarisse's place?
@Blake~What do you mean by a different sense? I don't know if Millie really cares about Montag at all, but are you implying that love is just "different"?
ReplyDelete@Joe- I don't think that if the parlor was taken from Mildred she'd actually care or pay attention to Montag. She would find a different distraction to take her away from reality, like the earbuds or pills or something. She's just like that.
ReplyDelete@Drew:
ReplyDeleteThat's true. Like what Beatty said; "Out of the nursery,into college,and back to the nursery" (Pg 55).In olden times there was arranged marriage, and I think that the world we're reading about is an old society with new technology.
@Hailey and Drew
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Everybody talked about in the book doesn't seem to enjoy being married, so it's not likely out of love. Just tradition has told them to marry someone.
I think it is ironic that the government banned books to end conflict, and yet are in the middle of a war-the greatest kind of conflict.
ReplyDelete@Maggie
ReplyDeletePossibly. I tend to think that Faber is not replasing Clarisse, rather just a character in the book that continues to push Montag to challenge the government. I also think that Faber is not as daring and bold as Clarisse. I think Clarisse would have been willing to die for her beliefs, but Farber will act on what he thinks as long as he doesn't get caught.
@class-
ReplyDeletewhy do you think that Montag went to Faber when he knew Faber was a "fugitive" to society as a massive book hoarder and could be caught at any moment?
@Savannah- I agree. I think that everyone in this society think that if they can distract themselves from reality, then reality won't affect them, which is completely untrue. Like Mildred for example, uses the parlor as a little escape from reality. I think she's afraid of what might happen to her life and her future if she faces reality.
ReplyDelete@Inner Circle~ The thing is that you choose to read or watch. If the parents are so mad about what content is part of a book then it should be a personal matter not one to ban the book from a whole school or county.
ReplyDelete@ Eliza
ReplyDeleteI like faber alot. I think that he will be important in Montags life. Though I don't know if he will be in the book much longer.
@Eliza
ReplyDeleteFaber is really a character who wants to change society but just doesn't have the courage to do it. He could make a large difference in the world. In my mind he represents the common person in society. They want to do something to change the way things are now since they don't agree, but they also think that no one is on their side and they just don't want to stand out and deal with the consequences of that.
@Hailey
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point. Do you think maybe times have changed since Montag and Mildred fell in love? Maybe, marriage is different now than it was when they first got married. That could be why they have lost their connection. Society and technology have taken over.
@Inner Circle: What do you think of Faber? Does he replace Clarisse, or what does he represent?
ReplyDelete@Blake
ReplyDeleteFaber was an English professor at a university, so he needs to go to someone who knows something about books.
@Class
ReplyDelete"He stared at the parlor that was dead and gray as the waters of the ocean that might team with life if they switched on the electronic sun."
What do you think this quote says about the world this society exists in?
@Elli- I agree about the personal part. If there is a book or movie or anything that someone does not agree with, they should just discourage or not allow their child to read it. If someone else wants to read it, then they should be able to. I think that is a lot like books in "Farenheit 451". If someone does not agree with it, then they should just not read the books. But if you have no problem, then you should be able to. Yet I know that there is much more to it than that. The government is involved and in this book, government rules all.
ReplyDelete@Drew:
ReplyDeleteCould society change that fast? 10 years for all that? It would probably take hundreds of years.
@Blake
ReplyDeleteI think Montag went to Farber, because at this point he is realizing that he has no hope in getting help from Millie. I think Montag is desperate to try to get answers even if he doesn't get the information from Farber.
I think books are more set in stone than a movie, a movie can be interpreted in similar fashions that a book can't provide. Movies have a visual aspect that gives everybody the same thought or similar thoughts than other viewers while a book can be seen in many aspects on how the mind sees it and how people see it.
ReplyDelete@Blake
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag went to Faber because he remembered that Faber thought the same way that Montag does now. He seems to have the "old fashioned thinking" like what Clarisse had. He knew that Faber loved books and didn't like what was going on in society with the burning of the books, and that maybe he would be able to help because of this belief.
@Drew
ReplyDeleteThe television and "relatives" have almost completely drawn Millie and Montag apart because that's all she ever does.
@Willie
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what I was thinking before. However, Hailey did make a good point. When Montag thinks back to when he and Mildred first met, it did seem like he loved her. As I said in my comment to Hailey, times have probably changed that now people only marry out of tradition. Montag and Mildred's relationship is changing with the society.
@Blake
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag whent to faber because he thought that faber was the only one who could understand the situation that Montag was in.
@Class
ReplyDeleteDo you think that the society in the book is anything like what we have now? How can all of the characters relate to people that are existing now in our society?
@Reid- Ooh, I really like that. I totally agree. Books are open to interpretation and movies are kinda not. Someone can only see a murder scene in a movie one way, while a murder scene in a book can be interpreted in many ways.
ReplyDelete@ Blake
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag thinks that Faber can help him. Yes, Faber hoards books, but Montag has a collection of books too. Montag may look to Faber for help and advice. Faber and Montag are very alike.
@Reid
ReplyDeleteIs that because books go into more detail without the loud and flashy distractions a movie contains?
I think Faber will be similar to Clarisse in the sense that he will help Montag challenge the system. The relationship between them is very different. But will have the same outcome
ReplyDelete@ class
ReplyDeleteAlthough this society had progressed in technology, they have regressed as a people. Is it just because the fact that books are banned, or is will this happen regardless? Is our society slowly receding into uneducated entertainment-minded monkeys?
Mildred is so absorbed with the TV parlor. She rarely has time to love Montag or to even talk in depth about anything. Maybe that is why she' isn't a mother. She either wouldn't want to take care of them, or she knows she wouldn't make time for them like a true mother would.
ReplyDelete@Reid:
ReplyDeleteHow are books set in stone? If anything, I think that they're more open to interperatation. For a movie,everyone sees the characters the same.In a book,a character is imagined differently by every single person.
@inner circle-
ReplyDeletebasically, they are controversial because imagination wonders when reading a book, due to rading background and learning, books develop thinking that "should'nt be allowed" in their society
@ Class
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Mildred is truly happy? Does her tecnology bring her true happiness?
@Class
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Beatty has any idea about the mass amount of books that Montag has? Also, do you think that Beatty sent the hound to confirm his suspisions?
@Eliza~ I think that's a very interesting quote because it shows the dependence of humans on technology and the role of powerful people. The technology thing because everything seems cold and metal and not genuine, and the powerful people thing because he says "if they would just turn on the electronic sun" so he's just talking about the nonspecific authority figures that have the power to do so.
ReplyDelete@Brooke and Blake- Yes, I agree with Brooke. Faber reminds Montag of himself, and I think that Montag is so desperate to find someone that has the same view of books as him that he seeks him out. Can you imagine what Montag must feel? He's an outcast! He is pretty much the only one that he knows except for Faber and Clarissa (who is gone) that is accepting of books. He must feel depressed because even his wife doesn't accept him! But I don't think that Faber is replacing Clarissa. Clarissa filled up Montag's heart in a way no one else will be able to. She was a friend, I think Faber will become more of a partner.
ReplyDelete@Maggie
ReplyDeleteI kind of agree to you question about Fabor replacing Clarisse. I think that Montag needs support to challenge the system, but since Clarisse died, he hasn't had anyone to support him. Now Fabor is Montag's support.
@Blake
ReplyDeleteHe needed someone who could help him understand the books. He knew that Faber used to be a professor, and he also knew he could trust him, as Faber trusted Montag that day in the park.
@Heidi
ReplyDeleteOur society today will probably slowly progress to what is happening in the book and how everyone is going to technology to talk to everyone. People are talking less in person, less on the phone even. Everything has already gone to just texting, or talking to each other through email or even Facebook.
@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteI think it could. Just think about the times we live in now. In the 14-15 years we've been alive, such incredible technology has come out and so many new laws have been passed. The iPod came out when we were in elementary school! A lot can happen in just 10 short years.
@ Savannah:
ReplyDeleteDo you think it was just Mildred's decision to not have children? Do you think it was Montag as well? Or even the society?
@Heidi
ReplyDeletePeople enjoy complex thinking too much. The thoughts in a book or a conversation about a serious topic is too good to let go.
@Blake
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag went to Faber because he needed to go to someone, and Faber felt the same way. He isn't replacing Clarisse, but he sort of serves as the same purpose. I don't think Montag could actually "rebel" and read the books if he didn't have someone to agree with him, so that is why he goes to Faber.
@savannah
ReplyDeleteI think your right. Also i dont think that she and Montag have a very intimate relationship that would make them want to have children.
@Heidi
ReplyDeleteThe people have regressed not necessarily because books are banned but because intelligence is viewed as a bad thing in society. Everyone just wants to go with the flow so they don't even think.
@Ellen and Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteThey could loose a lot. Though they don't have much to loose among other people. They can't loose each other. Their possessions have taken the place of real people. They are starting to care more about all of these things than the people that could offer so much more than a simulation of a family in the parlor.
@ Reid
ReplyDeleteTo a certain extent, I think you're right. But the way a book is written (Point of view) certainly has a huge impact on how you view the events in the story and which characters you like, etc. A movie is only a book in visual form, I mean, it comes from a script, doesn't it?
@Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteDo you think maybe books are more contraversial than movies because they are much more free for interpretations, think about the difference between watching a story and reading a story. When you read a story you can make your own image of the characters and you can decide for yourself what the intention of a character actually is. Where-as if you see it on a screan someone else already deicided what everything was about and they force their own opinion on you instead of you being able to make up your own judgments.
@Class
ReplyDeleteWhat is sentimental to these people? Their television set?
@Kathryn- I think that it was a mutual agreement not to have kids. I think that Mildred probably didn't want to, and honestly, do you think Montag would want to have kids with a woman who would pay no attention to them? He would have been the sole care taker of them, and really, with his job, he has no time for that. I don't know about society because we haven't been exposed to all of society yet.
ReplyDelete@Willie
ReplyDeleteBooks have their own views. For example, some one could see the battle in many ways; they could see it as bloody and gruesome or just soldiers running through a field of daisies with no weapons. It is just how the message comes across. In a movie there is only one thing to see, so everyone thinks of it in the same manner.
@Drew:
ReplyDeleteI guess...but the book burning has been going on for a long time, as far as we know. Do you think that the society could be like that when we're 25? 35?
@Brooke~ I think its scary (and mildly funny) because even email is becoming obsolete. You can just Facebook a person and it's even faster because they can get all their information in one place instead of having to go to their email as well as a social network. If you want to hang out with someone, you don't email them, you either text them or message them if they're online on Facebook. It's easier and faster and every form of communication is leading back to it.
ReplyDelete@ Heidi
ReplyDeleteI agree that as the censoring of literature increases, the progress of society will decrease. The less information citizens can get, the less intelligent they are. If the citizens have little intelligence, nothing can be accomplished.
@Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteLike you said with the people not having anything to lose, that is kind of like Mildred and other people all taking the medication. People just have no reason to actually live anymore. They just go through life. They have no family or friends. They do not connect personally with anyone.
@Hailey
ReplyDeleteIn your response to Brooke and Blake, you said Montag was an outcast and he was the only one who felt that way about books. Is he really an outcast? Not everyone is going to be like Mildred. Montag burns people's houses and books for a living. They feel the same way about books that he does. Don't you think Montag and Faber could easily find other people to join their cause?
@Maggie
ReplyDeleteWell, I really like how Bradbury adds the dialouge between Montag and Millie about the TV 'family'. I really don't think that she finds true happiness. In fact, while I was reading that part, I could almost feel the long pause after Montag asked Millie if the 'family' gave her happiness. This is because truely, Millie cannot feel loved or happy from her TV.
@inner circle-
ReplyDeleteDoes it seem like the religion has been stricken from their society? Does it seem like religious figures create such a problem to their society?
@class
ReplyDeleteDo you think that mildred and Montaug will stay married through the tough time they are going through. Is the realtionship strong enough.
@Class
ReplyDelete"Let's listen to this Captain Beatty together. He could be one of us. God knows."
Do you think there is any chance at all that Beatty could be on there side. I think it's unlikely, but does anyone have a differing opinion?
@Klarissa
ReplyDeleteI think that Beatty definitely realizes that Montag has books, granted I don't think that he realizes just how many books Montag really has in his possession. I doubt that he sent the dog himself, the dog seems to really just be looking for the possibility itself. After all it does have certain programming. The programing could have been altered by someone though...
I see Fahrenheit 451 as awareness. In order to improve society(if needed to)we have to hold on to the original was of communicating and learning Just because it takes longer, doesn't mean it's going to harm anyone.
ReplyDelete@Baergen
ReplyDeleteIf everyone feels like this, why has nobody taken any large steps to make change?
@Willie- Whoa, good question. I think that sentimental is an unknown word to these people. They have nothing sentimental. The closest thing they have to sentimental is stuff that they can't live without...or rather, stuff they THINK they can't live without. Mildred thinks she can't live without her "family" but it's not sentimental to her.
ReplyDelete@ Willie
ReplyDeleteIn this society, what else do people have to do besides sit and watch TV? They cant read, they cant go for walks...
@Inner circle
ReplyDeleteThe Doritos comercial just oes to show that even a screen can be controversial. When they made the comercial it was probably with good intention but since one person spread their own idea the picture was protrayed very differently.
I don't think they really have anything to lose. I mean, sure, they have their TV's, and electronics to lose, but they don't have any loved ones that care about and would be sad if they were gone. They don't have any true feelings or love for anything, but the television. I agree with Montag. If I were him, I would feel like I had nothing to lose.
ReplyDelete@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteBooks are more set in stone because those words are always there for some one to see. There are remakes of movies for a reason, they are not as set in stone. A movie is only one interpretation of the book.
@Class:
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Faber and Montag will be able to challange the system successfully? Will they be able to gain support?
@Taylor
ReplyDeleteWhat relationship? They don't seem to have anything going for them at this point. However, I do think they will stay together, if only because they don't care enough to leave.
I thought it was interesting how the author mentioned how they had won two nuclear wars.
ReplyDelete@Taylor
ReplyDeleteMontag and Mildred probably will stay married unless something catastrophic happens where one of them dies or something. Divorce doesn't seem like it would really be even evident in this society. Montag and Mildred barely talk as it is, they are just strangers that are sharing a house to start with.
@Willie
ReplyDeleteI think that at this point people don't know what is sentimental the people. They seem to not even care about each other. I think this is why Montag is feeling the way he is, because he doesn't know what to love or find sentimental anymore.
@Maggie
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to talking like Clarisse's family? They just walk and talk to each other.
@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteI think that if society keeps relying on technology and other things, then our society will definitely change. Already, school systems are changing. Like for example what we are doing right now. Instead of talking in person, we are having a conversation over the internet, about how we are too reliant on technology. It is very ironic. I think that this way we are living is definitely going to effect our world in a few years. Its rapidly changing now, so its scary to think about what it could be like in 20 years or so.
@Reid:
ReplyDeleteO.K. I see your point there. But are books just words? Or are they more than that?
@Class
ReplyDeleteDo you think Fabor is truly going to help Montag? Do you think he has good intentions, and is just afraid? What are your thoughts?
@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteThey have been burning books for a long time but do we know how long it took them to get to that point? Remember the Sedition act in WWI? In just a few months, the government immediately put restrictions on what people could say. Our society could get to a point of serious restriction and censorship in less than a year if the government all agreed on it.
@Class
ReplyDeleteDo you think that the society as a whole agrees with the banning of books? Or, could they just think everyone else believes in it so they all conform to that idea?
@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteI doubt they will be able to get support. There is not enough people that care. Even if they get caught they will still stir the pot and somewhat challenge the system.
@ Brooke
ReplyDeleteDoesnt Montag say somthing about divorce earlier in the book?
@ Class
ReplyDeleteIs the illegality of books confined to America? Is that why there is a war-some other country is challenging America's government?
@Class- Savannah said she views this book as awareness. I agree... but do you guys think that everyone else will? Do you think that this book has the power to change society? I don't. I think that as much as we say it is a 'motivator for social change', I don't think it will affect our society at all. It has been around for fifty years, and it hasn't changed anything we've done. Do you think that it has the possibility to affect society fifty years later after it's been written? On the same note, do you honestly think books have the power to change our society at all in general?
ReplyDelete@Emma
ReplyDeleteThey also didn't think about how burning books might be offensive to other people. The bible might be considered offensive to some religions, but isn't it just as offensive to Christians if the government is burning their bible?
@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteThis is a good question, considering that Montag cannot even get help from is own wife. I think it may be hard for them, because everyone is sucked into the life of their television.
@Inner circle~ coming from the Jewish perspective, I agree with the people who say that religion plays a major role in society and commercial interest. Often I find things that are subtly or directly offensive to me but I don't complain because I don't feel like I could get anywhere with it. However, if it was a book that was offensive to a larger religion such as Christians, they would be able to get much further because they have the advantage of mass-there are a lot of them.
ReplyDelete@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteI think that Faber and Montag have the skills and tools to successfully challenge the system, they just have to be sure not to get caught.
@ inner circle
ReplyDeleteHow does this Doritos commercial have any relevance to Fahrenheit 451? It just states that some people are way to radical in their beliefs and has no relevance to how one appears in a book. Every book can be controversial to a certain group. That commercial just ticked someone off who had certain amount of power or not a great sense of humor.
@Baergen
ReplyDeleteI agree! This book is really seeming to show where our society could really be in a few decades. It's scary to think how we are criticizing it so much right now, but yet so many aspects of whats in Fahrenheit 451's society and our society are really the same or so similar. It could be happening to all of us in our life times.
@inner circle-
ReplyDeleteDo you think that the books are honestly controverstial? Do you think that people think they want to get rid of books to make everyone the same in thought and actions?
@Gabe
ReplyDeleteI believe this government probably succeeded with this burning books law because everyone just expected everyone else to conform to it.
@ Gabe
ReplyDeleteOf course not everyone agrees with the banning of books! That's why there are firemen like Montag to make sure that they do.
@Kathryn
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to say, really. There might be enough people that still hide books, but it's likely that there are very few who would like to challenge "The Government".
@Hailey
ReplyDeleteI think people want to think of books as motivators for social change, but I agree with you that it really won't change anything. I think books make people think about our society and how we could change it, but people don't actually do anything.
@Class
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think Bradbury's purpose was in adding religion to the book? How does this play a role in Montag's life?
@Gabe- I think that it could be both ways. I think that either most of the society can feel the same way as Montag, or that they all agree with the government. It kinda reminds me of Adolph Hitler, the Germans, and World War II. Everyone thought during that time that all Germans agreed with Hitler's ways. But it wasn't true. Most of them did not, and the ones that did were sometimes forced into it. They were scared. I think that may be how this society is.
ReplyDelete@Hailey
ReplyDeleteThe books themselves sure don't have enough power to change society. Its just one persons view among billions of others. It takes more than just one to change society. There has to be those that agree and are willing to change the society and accept the risks that come along with it.
@inner circle-
ReplyDeleteMichael did bring up that the book does show that religion has been destroyed because the books and religions show that people can have free thought
@ inner circle
ReplyDeleteWhy are books illegal, but newspapers and pamphlets and rood signs are still legal they can all be controversial to any person?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteHe didn't mention Judaism or Christianity. Do these still exist or have they just become completely mainstream?
@inner circle
ReplyDeleteI don't think that there are religions but it is surprising that there isn't. Since the government is so controlling it would make sense for them to control people by using religion. Instead they use the TV.
@Gabe
ReplyDeleteI'm sure there are many people that don't agree with it. If everyone agreed, then they wouldn't even need the firemen. Faber and Mrs.Blake both prove that there are people who don't agree with book burning, and I think Montag will become one of those people later on in the story.
@Klarissa
ReplyDeleteI don't think it plays a role in Montag's life. I think it just backs up the reason for books being burned.
@Inner Circle:
ReplyDeleteI think that there is religion, just not in the place we're seeing. Like on page 76. There are no copies of the bible left.
@ Katy
ReplyDeleteI think society had a huge impact on Mildred's decision not to have children. It's a possibility that Montag had a say in this too. He's a fireman; he doesn't have time to be a dad. Before this society, people with very busy jobs were able to juggle all their responsibilities. Being a parent takes time every single day. Maybe Mildred realizes who she is, when she O.D.'s on sleeping pills and her personality in the parlor. Maybe she doesn't want to raise children like her and Montag. Could it be she wants to change society too, but she refuses to share he ideas or thoughts? Or maybe she loves the way things are? Her life revolves around her family.
@Reid
ReplyDeleteThe government probably edits them until there can't be anything offensive in them.
@Hailey
ReplyDeleteI don't neccesarily think that books have the power to completely change or reform society, but they can make usmore aware. You asked if books could be a motivator for social change. I think that they can becasue they might not completely change the society but they might motivate people to take baby steps in that direction. The content of books can influence people to try to make a change. Montag, for example, was driven to make a change just by seeing how society was before. If people see how things could be, they often try to keep it from happening.
@Joe
ReplyDeleteThat is a good point. It just reinforces the idea that television is completely controlling their society and that people aren't actually caring about others, just t.v
@Reid
ReplyDeleteThis is probably because of what Beatty was saying in his speech in our last reading section. Give people only one side of the story, don't even let them think about it. Books provide to much area to think about what they mean, while the newspapers can be so generic and demeaning, I would guess especially in this society, that no one would have enough room to gain their own opinion on it. It's all already set in stone, there's no arguing it.
@Willie~ define mainstream? What do you mean a mainstream religion? Religious views are so radically different now that what would a compromise consist of?
ReplyDelete@ Inner Circle
ReplyDeleteIf Clarisse hadn't died, would Montag still have gone to Faber for help?
@Baergen
ReplyDeleteTrue. I meant more of how it relates to his life. I used the wrong wording.
@Hailey
ReplyDeleteI think that is a very good point. People in this society could just be scared to think of what the world would be like with free thought. Think about it they would actually have to work and think through difficult situations. People got there because of propoganda and now their scared to go back because they have heard all these fake and terrible stories about how the world used to be.
@Reid- Books are banned because they can't control what his written in them. I think that since most of the books were written in the past, such as Shakespeare or the Bible, they are afraid they may contain content that sparks a rebellion or something like that. Yet, the pamphlets and stuff like that....well, maybe the government controls all the companies that make them, so that they may censor and choose the content.
ReplyDelete@class-
ReplyDeleteWhat can Faber possiblly show in this society? Could he also resemble a figure like Clarrise to Montag?
@ class
ReplyDeleteWhen Montag was trying to get Mildred to read the books, she refused, saying that they were useless. She only thinks in "practicality" and "Reality" and in turn can't comprehend the abstract concepts of fiction or philosophy. Assuming that Mildred is a representative of society's norm, how can books ever recover unless something is done to change their way of thinking?
I would have to agree with Kathryn in the inner circle. He is on her side and Clarisse was the catalyst as we said and she could be driving his ambition to save books and literature all together.
ReplyDelete@Elli
ReplyDeleteI agree with the fact that christians have a lot of power in the world today. That is the way it is and it doesnt seem fair but I dont think that it will be changed for a while. Thats not right.
@Savannah:
ReplyDeleteDo you think the whole society is like this? We have only seen Montag and Mildred. We don't know if people still have children. If that ever happened, what would happen? Would the human race just die out?
@Gabe- Exactly. People in this society say they will do stuff and don't. People are too scared that they might disrupt what the world is like and cause some major cataclysmic change. I think that if we weren't so scared to do so, books and literature would be a great way to motivate people and plant ideas in their mind.
ReplyDelete@Maggie
ReplyDeleteI think he would have. He is looking for support and Faber would have given him more even if Clarisse had been alive.
@Maggie
ReplyDeleteMontag may have still gone to Faber for help even if Clarisse was still around. I think this because he would need more help than just a young girl who is still in school. He would want someone who was still around when society was more "old fashioned" than it is now in the book.
@Blake
ReplyDeleteFaber shows the very rare intellectual in this society. Practically nobody knows much about anything.
@Heidi:
ReplyDeleteDoes mildred really hold on to reality? She is obsessed with television and doesn't go outside, as far as we know.
@Gabe and Hailey
ReplyDeleteThat's what I was thinking as well. However, maybe not everyone is afraid to take a stand against the government. Why do you think most people risk being arrested and having their houses burned down by keeping books? That is probably how most of them make their point.
@Hailey
ReplyDeleteWhat about the companies who publish the books they have more power on keep away controversial subjects than the average person at their house who is printing 1,000 copies a day. That can't be controlled.
I am not so sure about Beatty. I feel like he could go either way. He is arrogant and tough, but it could just be a mask that he is putting up for people. Maybe he puts on that act because he knows it's what people want a firefighter to be like, but we haven't really gotten to see what his true thoughts are. Take Montag, for example. He was just another firefighter at first, but when Clarisse came along, he was changed. Maybe Beatty is really a different person on the inside. Maybe when beatty first got his job, he believed it all and agreed with it. However, maybe Beatty is having different thoughts and feelings now, but he feels like, because of his authority and job, he can't act on these feelings. If this is the case with Beatty, maybe Montag and Fabor's rebellion is all he is going to need to see that he, too, can challenge the system.
ReplyDelete@Inner circle
ReplyDeleteThe tooth paste commercial really shows how there can't be a full train of thought. It's like the other short story that we read (not the Pedestrian) They can't have enough time to think.
@Heidi
ReplyDeleteI had the same question. This is where I get stuck. How many people can there possibly be like Montag and Farber? I really don't think that Montag and Farber can overthrow the government by themselves.
@ Class
ReplyDeleteWhen the advertisement was blaring as Montag attempted to read the book. It was society's pressure of conforming, and interfering with his thoughts.
@Heidi- I disagree. Mildred isn't thinking in reality at all. She is stuck in her electronic world all day, shut OUT from reality. I think she thinks books are TOO realistic...she'd rather be in her technology world where nothing goes wrong and she controls everything...she can't control what are in these books, and she can't understand.
ReplyDelete@ Heidi
ReplyDeleteThat is a very good point. Books can't recover unless more people such as Montag and Faber bring to light the importance of literature.
@inner circle
ReplyDeleteI think Montag can't pay attention due to the fact he is paranoid of getting caught with this book and can't focus or keep his eye on the prize.